Are atheists afraid of God?

[Paul of Tarsus]

In response to Stephen Hawking's quip, "Religion is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark," apologist John Lennox said, "And atheism is a fairy story for those afraid of the light."

Do atheists fear that light aka God? I would answer no assuming I knew atheists to be completely sensible and rational in their rejection of theism, but they very often aren't sensible and rational in their unbelief. In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good! It's simply illogical to conclude that God doesn't exist because some people disagree about him. His atheism is obviously based on faulty logic. What's odd about these cases involving atheists using poor reasoning to reject God is that those atheists seem quite reasonable otherwise. My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist. Atheism is for them a sanctuary from theism and a hope that reality harbors no scary God.

[William]

[Replying to Paul of Tarsus in post #1]

In this forum, for example, an atheist said he lost his belief in God when he realized that there are different religions. When I tried to explain to him that those conflicting faiths can be explained as some of them getting a real God wrong, well, it did me no good!

This is reasonable.

It may be that in seeing the differences one also sees the similarities but there is nothing in any religion which appears to bring all the religious beliefs together and Christianity can be compared to other religions when taking the imagery into consideration.

While the claim might be that Christianity presents "The Real God" the actuality is that they are simply presenting somewhat tweaked ideas of religious imagery - and adopting these as their own and claiming these as 'real' or 'the truth' ... or something that they 'believe on faith' to be true...but therein is the illogical to which atheists lacking belief, see no point in believing simply on faith, because it is not logical to do so.

[Miles]

From my observations of and interactions with atheists as well as the studies I have read on this topic, I have discovered that there are a variety of reasons why some people don't believe in God.


Some are sincerely looking for rational evidence and will seriously consider rational evidence when given it. They simply want to be convinced. I say good for them. I wouldn't believe something unless I was convinced of it with strong evidence so why would I expect somebody else to believe without good reason?

Speaking as a long-time atheist, I've never known any to "look" for evidence. At most, they would be waiting for convincing evidence to show up, but because to date none ever has, it's far more likely they're resigned to never running into any. Yet to be honest with themselves, no enlightened atheist denies the existence of god, but rather says they remain unconvinced one exists. i.e. they don't believe god exists.

Some reject God for purely emotional reasons. These are people who have been hurt by the Church and by people wearing the Christian label and who blame God for the tragedy and suffering in their lives. It isn't so much that these people don't believe that God exists. They are just so wounded that their pain and their anger and their bitterness prevent them from entering into a relationship with the Lord. I understand that. The presence of evil in the world is indeed a stumbling block for many.

Still others hate the very idea of God and want to run their own lives independent of a higher moral power. I can remember reading work by one of the Huxleys (can't remember whether it was T. E. or Aldous) in which he said he didn't want God to exist because he loved his sins too much to give them up, something he'd have to do it God were real and held him to a higher moral standard than the one he followed at that point. I appreciate that kind of honesty from someone. And that's Biblical as John writes, "Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19).

Boy, I don't know where you find such atheists, but they're certainty not representative of the vast majority I'm familiar with. At the very most they would represent a small fraction (less than 10%) of the atheists population.

I have found that some of the people in the last two categories will hide behind what they call "intellectual" reasons, but you can tell from what they say and write and believe that isn't really the case because, as you point out, PofT, their logic may be good when it comes to many things, but they lose it when it comes to the issue of God.

There's an excellent book entitled Why People Don't Believe by Paul Chamberlain in which he looks at the objections to God that some people give including the issues of Biblical morality, religion and violence, and science and Christianity. I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to study the topic of unbelief.

If this is where you've gleaned your information, it appears Chamberlain has created reasons out of thin air and attached them to atheists. Or, perhaps you've misread him. In any case, they don't apply to the majority.



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[brunumb]

From my observations of and interactions with atheists as well as the studies I have read on this topic, I have discovered that there are a variety of reasons why some people don't believe in God.

Some are sincerely looking for rational evidence and will seriously consider rational evidence when given it. They simply want to be convinced. I say good for them. I wouldn't believe something unless I was convinced of it with strong evidence so why would I expect somebody else to believe without good reason?

Some reject God for purely emotional reasons. These are people who have been hurt by the Church and by people wearing the Christian label and who blame God for the tragedy and suffering in their lives. It isn't so much that these people don't believe that God exists. They are just so wounded that their pain and their anger and their bitterness prevent them from entering into a relationship with the Lord. I understand that. The presence of evil in the world is indeed a stumbling block for many.

Still others hate the very idea of God and want to run their own lives independent of a higher moral power. I can remember reading work by one of the Huxleys (can't remember whether it was T. E. or Aldous) in which he said he didn't want God to exist because he loved his sins too much to give them up, something he'd have to do it God were real and held him to a higher moral standard than the one he followed at that point.

You have not provided reasons why people don't believe in God. In the first example you explicitly indicated that those people do believe in God, but reject it. The same applies to your second example. Not wanting something to exist is not the same thing as not believing that it exists. Again, it is a matter of rejection. You need to address actual disbelief in God.

[nobspeople]

My guess is that they fear God and wish that he doesn't exist.

Guessing games aren't of much value in a debate forum. Verifiable evidence is what carries weight, or at least should.


Tcg

If an atheist doesn't believe in a god, it makes no sense to say they're or could be afraid of its light. How can one be afraid of something they don't believe in?

I don't believe in the threat of fly spaghetti monsters because I don't believe in flying spaghetti monsters

[Paul of Tarsus]

From my observations of and interactions with atheists as well as the studies I have read on this topic, I have discovered that there are a variety of reasons why some people don't believe in God.

Yes, and those reasons to be atheistic go well beyond "lack of belief in gods." Atheism isn't nearly as passive as a lot of atheists claim but is often an active denial of God.

Some are sincerely looking for rational evidence and will seriously consider rational evidence when given it. They simply want to be convinced. I say good for them. I wouldn't believe something unless I was convinced of it with strong evidence so why would I expect somebody else to believe without good reason?

I agree with you here. I actually think it's immoral to try to compel belief in a person when that person has doubts

Some reject God for purely emotional reasons. These are people who have been hurt by the Church and by people wearing the Christian label and who blame God for the tragedy and suffering in their lives. It isn't so much that these people don't believe that God exists. They are just so wounded that their pain and their anger and their bitterness prevent them from entering into a relationship with the Lord. I understand that. The presence of evil in the world is indeed a stumbling block for many.

We do need to be upset by evil, and the church going back to Christ himself never promised a sinless church. The church also never promised people lives without problems. So if anybody doubts God because they see a corrupt church or a world with suffering, then they doubt God for something Christianity never said he did or he is.

Still others hate the very idea of God and want to run their own lives independent of a higher moral power. I can remember reading work by one of the Huxleys (can't remember whether it was T. E. or Aldous) in which he said he didn't want God to exist because he loved his sins too much to give them up, something he'd have to do it God were real and held him to a higher moral standard than the one he followed at that point. I appreciate that kind of honesty from someone. And that's Biblical as John writes, "Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil" (John 3:19).

I believe you are referring to Julian Huxley. I wonder how he convinced himself that God isn't real. What's odd about the preference for sin is that God is supposed to be the greatest pleasure, so you would think that if pleasure is a person's top priority, then that person would pursue God rather than sin. I suppose sin can be immediate pleasure while God's pleasure is normally deferred. Why wait if you don't need to?

I have found that some of the people in the last two categories will hide behind what they call "intellectual" reasons, but you can tell from what they say and write and believe that isn't really the case because, as you point out, PofT, their logic may be good when it comes to many things, but they lose it when it comes to the issue of God.

The "logic" in the arguments against God (at least in this forum) is as bad or worse than the reasoning employed by your "village Christian." I have trouble believing that anybody can be that stupid as to use such twisted and easily refuted arguments against God. There's got to be something going on behind the curtain. Is it fear of God?

There's an excellent book entitled Why People Don't Believe by Paul Chamberlain in which he looks at the objections to God that some people give including the issues of Biblical morality, religion and violence, and science and Christianity. I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to study the topic of unbelief.

I will put it on my list.

[William]

From my observations of and interactions with atheists as well as the studies I have read on this topic, I have discovered that there are a variety of reasons why some people don't believe in God.

Yes, and those reasons to be atheistic go well beyond "lack of belief in gods." Atheism isn't nearly as passive as a lot of atheists claim but is often an active denial of God.

So many Christians make this assumption - they are really misidentifying [thus misrepresenting] what an atheist is [as a position]

What you are actually describing are atheists who have shifted their position from the inactive "lacking belief in gods" to the active "arguing that gods do not exist" which is a sub-position of atheism - usually "non-theist" or "anti-theist"...The OP is actually more describing the anti-theist position than the atheist one.

Some reject God for purely emotional reasons. These are people who have been hurt by the Church and by people wearing the Christian label and who blame God for the tragedy and suffering in their lives. It isn't so much that these people don't believe that God exists. They are just so wounded that their pain and their anger and their bitterness prevent them from entering into a relationship with the Lord. I understand that. The presence of evil in the world is indeed a stumbling block for many.

We do need to be upset by evil, and the church going back to Christ himself never promised a sinless church. The church also never promised people lives without problems. So if anybody doubts God because they see a corrupt church or a world with suffering, then they doubt God for something Christianity never said he did or he is.

Which goes a long way to support of the argument that one is better served rejecting Christianity [or any other religion which practices evil in the name of "the Creator"] while remaining open to the Creator being other than what these religions have imaged The Creator as being, and detrimentally imposed that image onto the world...

I have found that some of the people in the last two categories will hide behind what they call "intellectual" reasons, but you can tell from what they say and write and believe that isn't really the case because, as you point out, PofT, their logic may be good when it comes to many things, but they lose it when it comes to the issue of God.

The "logic" in the arguments against God (at least in this forum) is as bad or worse than the reasoning employed by your "village Christian." I have trouble believing that anybody can be that stupid as to use such twisted and easily refuted arguments against God. There's got to be something going on behind the curtain. Is it fear of God?

It is neither fear of The Creator nor stupidity. Rather it is the reasonable observation of Christian practices [re NT onwards] in giving the world displays of their evil practices done in the name of their God. Such practice is healthy to fear [shy away from - do not participate in] and seeing such practice as 'stupid' is a healthy alternative to believing they are God-sanctioned.

[Tcg]

There's an excellent book entitled Why People Don't Believe by Paul Chamberlain in which he looks at the objections to God that some people give including the issues of Biblical morality, religion and violence, and science and Christianity. I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to study the topic of unbelief.

I'd highly suggest letting people who lack belief in god/gods themselves explain their reasons. An excellent source for this are the many deconversion websites on the net. "Leaving Christianity" is a well established example:

More deconversion stories

From Christian to Atheist "The story of my slow and difficult journey to disbelief in god." by Roger Martin.

"Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I do not reject Christianity because of my desire to go around sinning without any guilt; I reject Christianity because I have closely examined its claims and I have found them to be unsubstantiated."

https://sites.google.com/site/leavingxt ... on-stories

Atheists are the best source possible to determine why they lack belief. Turning to theists to explain atheist's reasons is a bit like expecting straw man arguments to be sound.


Tcg

[brunumb]

The "logic" in the arguments against God (at least in this forum) is as bad or worse than the reasoning employed by your "village Christian." I have trouble believing that anybody can be that stupid as to use such twisted and easily refuted arguments against God.

What logic and arguments that can so easily be refuted are you referring to?

[brunumb]

The "logic" in the arguments against God (at least in this forum) is as bad or worse than the reasoning employed by your "village Christian."

The "village Christian" you refer to, like the vast majority of Christians and other theists, did not gain their belief in God through logic or arguments. They had their beliefs inculcated into vulnerable minds through indoctrination. Everything else is an attempt at post hoc rationalisation.

[Paul of Tarsus]

This question is akin to asking if Christians are afraid of pixies.

Assuming that Christians have a reputation for denying the existence of pixies, then yes, the two questions are analogous. The big difference between the way atheists react to the issue of God's existence and the way Christians react the issue of pixies' existence, though, is that few if any Christians actually spend a lot of time and effort trying to demonstrate that pixies don't exist, and neither do most Christians get emotionally involved in the issue of the existence of pixies. Atheists, on the other hand, are often not so dispassionate when pondering if God exists. The idea of God existing seems very distasteful to them.

How can one be afraid of something they hold no belief in?

I'm not sure how or why the human psyche can harbor contradictory thoughts and feelings, but it can and often does. So you tell me how people can fear what they don't believe in.

Let me tell you a brief "ghost story" to illustrate my point. A tough guy boasted to his friends at the bar that he was afraid of nothing and didn't believe in ghosts. His buddies dared him to spend a night at a local abandoned prison that was reputedly haunted. He took them up on the dare. The next day he didn't show, and his friends searched the abandoned prison for him. They found him there; he was dead and hanging by his coat from a spike jutting out of the wall that had caught his coat. Evidently he had thought that something had grabbed a hold of him, and his heart failed him.

So the moral of this ghost story is that what we think and what we feel are often two different things. This man knew that there are no spooks or ghosts, but on that lonely, dark night as he walked through the abandoned cells that had long ago confined and tormented violent criminals, his feelings told him to beware.

If someone is actually afraid of the Christian god, then they are not truly an atheist because they believe this god to exist.

It's common for people to doubt their beliefs, and atheists are no exceptions to that rule. There's always that thought in the back of the mind: I could be wrong. And under some extreme circumstances, atheists might fear God like the "tough guy" feared ghosts. Old age and getting nearer death, for example, can cause an atheist to change his mind. It happened to Antony Flew.