The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

[William]

Lately some of us have been arguing from three differing positions is which the bible can be used to defend all three. All three appear to agree that each individual has a "Soul" although there may be disagreement on what the exact function of a "Soul" is.

[1] A "Person" is "Spirit" and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that "Person" enters an afterlife and is judged by "God" and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to "heaven" and those condemned go to "Hell" - or in some variances on this, are "exterminated".

[2] A "Person" a "Human being" and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless "God" judges them as "saved" in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.

[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.

Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.

Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true. [1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.

However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.

And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible once uses to do so.

The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].

If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be "proven" by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.

But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be "proven" by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition.

Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #63]
Are you trying to say there is some 3rd state of being other than man or spirit?

No, there are natural and spiritual bodies -- just those two types.

That's correct, Jesus was carried into the heavens, but not into the kingdom of God.

Is there some place in heaven where the kingdom isn't?

We are instructed to pray as follows:

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

If the Kingdom of God is to come here, I suppose it could not be here now.

But Jesus cannot be carried into the Kingdom of God because Jesus was a man.

And no man can inherit the Kingdom of God because it is a spiritual kingdom which flesh and blood cannot see or inherit.

There were witnesses who saw Jesus carried "up into heaven."

This probably means they saw Him carried up into the skies above the earth.

What does Jesus do in Heaven?

If Jesus is a man, He isn't in Heaven. When one talks about Jesus now, they should probably use the term The Word.

Man cannot understand things of the spiritual world -- so I do not know what anyone does in heaven in any detail.

Jesus (or The Word, or however we should properly identify "Jesus" as now) is in Heaven preparing us (believers) a place.

I go to prepare a place for you.

What do you make of this scripture?

"Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen" - Rev 1:1-5

That is referencing things Jesus did on the earth, and the kingdom He (or The Word) will rule forever on the earth.

[William]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #244]

It appears that your categorization is incomplete.

It is complete enough. Obviously Christians can come along and add their particular different beliefs to [1]&[2] but [1]&[2] share those fundamental aspects which such extra beliefs then branch away from.

Truth be told, everyone's beliefs - if examined - would show slight variations to overall themes...so the [1] [2] & [3] are about categorical distinctions which branch away and are evident in how Christians argue against each other re said differences to do with [1]&[2] which position [3] has no wriggle room in which to do so.

I think [1] and [2] are both incorrect.

Not as far as what you have already said about your beliefs. Obviously you think some parts of both [1]&[2] are incorrect, while you agree with other parts ...

First, I'm not claiming I 'know' my view is true. I believe it is true. I ultimately believe it is true because of the soundness of the historicity of the Resurrection.

That in itself is something most all other Christians have in common...part of the fundamentals that the rest of belief is built upon and branches off of... part of both [1]&[2]... and for that matter, nothing which would need to be dropped if one were to accept [3] as the better belief to have re the next phase...

I think the only 'reasoning' you've offered for your view is that it is logically possible. I think the reasoning for my beliefs outweighs the mere logical possibility of your view being true.

I suppose that your opinion can be noted here, but I have no memory of your offering support for this assertion...

I don't think heaven is a different location from earth, as though it's a different planet in existence somewhere out there. I think this world is currently getting renewed into heaven and will be fully renewed for eternity.

That fits with [2] in relation to beleifs about where "persons" go in the next phase. Re [3] it is not important as to the 'place' Earth is in. [3] acknowledges that all places are aspects of the same place, and that currently Earth is situated in The Realm of Judgement, which itself is situated as an enclosed Realm within the vaster Holographic Realms.
The Realm of Judgement is like The Fathers House - an aspect of The Fathers Kingdom not to be confused as all that The Fathers Kingdom consists of.

In comparison to the vastness of the Holographic Realms, The Realm of Judgement is but a speck...

Jehovah's Witnesses also believe a similar thing as you do [2] - but [3] say's that what is expected by the believer is what the believer will experience, so if the believer expects the Earth to 'get renewed' then that will be the kind of reality experience the believer will create for their self to experience as real.

I believe the human spirit-matter composite will neither cause suffering nor experience suffering.

And so it shall be for you then. Will it remember suffering?

I would argue that right now the bodies we Eternal Spirits are inside of, were meant to be as intended. The way they were created to be.

Do you have an argument to support this claim for me to consider, since I disagree?

Yes. The Eternal Creator doesn't make mistakes and intended our current human forms to function as they do. Thus they are intended to retard any memory of we having existed before, so that the experience of 'being human' is as genuine as possible. Also, said forms were not meant to completely retard ability to experience alternate realities, and this is designed so, because The Eternal Creator does not want us to forget we are Eternal Spirits, forever...

If it is left up to us, then what we create is not simply a product of love spilling out of us.

It is, if such creations are the product of those who have come to the realization they are and have really always been Eternal Spirits - and thus will create accordingly, just as The Eternal Creator, creates accordingly...with love spilling out of It and into the Creations...

We simply don't always act out of love, perhaps not usually so.

Try believing yourself to being an Eternal Spirit of The Eternal Creator and see how much your view here will naturally change...to a being whom always creates through Love.

Introspection tells us this

Deep introspection unclouded by the filters of belief systems resisting all truth, tells us something to the contrary - but one will never know that until one learns to go that deep...

[JehovahsWitness]

There were witnesses who saw Jesus carried "up into heaven." This probably means they saw Him carried up into the skies above the earth.

But Jesus cannot be carried into the Kingdom of God because Jesus was a man...If Jesus is a man, He isn't in Heaven.

This is a little confusing for me...

Do you believe Jesus was resurrected as a man (a human being) ?

If so, when he ascended into the "sky" was he still a man?

If so... what happened to Jesus the man after he was concealed from his disciples view ?

- Did he go into some waiting area?
- Did he change from a human to a spirit?


JW

[2timothy316]

There were witnesses who saw Jesus carried "up into heaven." This probably means they saw Him carried up into the skies above the earth.

But Jesus cannot be carried into the Kingdom of God because Jesus was a man...If Jesus is a man, He isn't in Heaven.

This is a little confusing for me...

Do you believe Jesus was resurrected as a man (a human being) ?

If so, when he ascended into the "sky" was he still a man?

If so... what happened to Jesus the man after he was concealed from his disciples view ?

- Did he go into some waiting area?
- Did he change from a human to a spirit?


JW

And to add to JWs questions: is Jesus still up in the sky as a human?

[PinSeeker]

"Enjoy The Ride" I say.

Don't you mean "trip?"

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

There were witnesses who saw Jesus carried "up into heaven." This probably means they saw Him carried up into the skies above the earth.

But Jesus cannot be carried into the Kingdom of God because Jesus was a man...If Jesus is a man, He isn't in Heaven.

This is a little confusing for me...

Do you believe Jesus was resurrected as a man (a human being) ?

If so, when he ascended into the "sky" was he still a man?

If so... what happened to Jesus the man after he was concealed from his disciples view ?

- Did he go into some waiting area?
- Did he change from a human to a spirit?

There are natural bodies and spiritual bodies.

Jesus was resurrected from the tomb as a natural bodied man.

He was seen being carried up into the heavens about 40 days later as a man.

But no man can inherit the Kingdom of God.

To enter the spiritual Kingdom of Heaven Jesus would need to be a spirit.

==============================================

But if He becomes a spiritual being He has accepted His reward for living a sinless life.

And if He accepts His deserved inheritance, He cannot also offer it to us a free gift.

So we have a quandary.

His reason for living as a man has been accomplished.

How He fades, vanishes, or is merged back into The Word (from which He was made flesh) I do not know.

But I am convinced that is what occurred, because if He accepted His deserved inheritance of a new spiritual body which He deserved by living a sinless life under the Old Testament Covenant, He could not also offer his inheritance to us -- and we would have no salvation.

I don't think any human understands exactly what occurred after losing sight of Him in the sky.

I am convinced that we must consider Him to be a spiritual bodied member of the spiritual Kingdom of God at this time.

There is no cause for Him to be a mortal man at this time.

And to add to JWs questions: is Jesus still up in the sky as a human?

No. Humans can't move as the wind. Only Spirits can:

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

That's why He had to carried.

[2timothy316]

And to add to JWs questions: is Jesus still up in the sky as a human?

No.

If Jesus isn't in the sky anymore where is he?

[JehovahsWitness]

There are natural bodies and spiritual bodies.

Jesus was resurrected from the tomb as a natural bodied man.

He was seen being carried up into the heavens about 40 days later as a man.

To enter the spiritual Kingdom of Heaven Jesus would need to be a spirit.

How He fades, vanishes, or is merged back into The Word (from which He was made flesh) I do not know.

"He fades, vanishes, or is merged back into The Word"?! If as you say there are only two types of bodies natural (flesh and blood) physical bodies and spiritual bodies, one doesnt "merge" into the other, a person is one OR the other. Perhaps you don't realise the impression your words give but when you say ...

- the person of the risen Christ "fades" or "vanishes" you give the impression Jesus died (for the second time, having already died when executed)

- And to say.... he is "merged back into the Word" gives the impression both the risen Christ and the Word existed at the same time as different individuels and that the two individuels somehow combined to become one person insteadnof two.

I take it (correct me if I am wrong) but you are simply trying to say Jesus changed from having in a physical body as a human being to having in a spirit body (so he could enter heaven).

[William]

As Christians clash it out in this thread - now in relation to what kind of body Jesus occupied, they appear to be under the impression that the body makes the man.

This has everything to do with their misunderstanding through misinformation to do with how they self identify. Human beings are like that, as I have explained in earlier posts. After all, that is what 'makes one a human'.

This is why the world is so conflicted...because that which contains the Spirit [the form] is that which is seen to be the identity of the Spirit and effectively has tricked the Spirit into misidentifying itself.

This is why the Creator-God in the bible is said to have asked Adam "Who told you that you were naked?"

Adam of course, had no answer to that question because he did not understand what he really was - as he had already formed a relationship with his form to the point where he was unable to differentiate between who he was [Spirit] and what he was within. [animal flesh].

It was Adam who told himself he was naked. It was Adam who told himself he was 'a man' - The human form was so well made that it almost completely blocked of the knowledge [of Spirit] and had the Spirit believe it was something which it was not.

[The Tanager]

It is complete enough. Obviously Christians can come along and add their particular different beliefs to [1]&[2] but [1]&[2] share those fundamental aspects which such extra beliefs then branch away from.

Truth be told, everyone's beliefs - if examined - would show slight variations to overall themes...so the [1] [2] & [3] are about categorical distinctions which branch away and are evident in how Christians argue against each other re said differences to do with [1]&[2] which position [3] has no wriggle room in which to do so.

It is confusing to me and appears to be incomplete. Here is how I would categorize things:

[1] Eternal 'afterlife' existence for all in one phase (either Heaven or Hell)

[2] Eternal 'afterlife' existence for the saved in one phase (Heaven) and (at most) a temporary 'afterlife' existence for the unsaved before being exterminated.

[3] Eternal 'afterlife' existence for all in various phases they create for themselves.

In this categorization, I am undecided between [1] and [2] but lean towards [2].

I think the only 'reasoning' you've offered for your view is that it is logically possible. I think the reasoning for my beliefs outweighs the mere logical possibility of your view being true.

I suppose that your opinion can be noted here, but I have no memory of your offering support for this assertion...

I'm supposed to offer support for my assertion that I haven't seen you offer any positive view for your support? If you've offered positive support for your view of the afterlife being true and I've missed it, then please just point back to the post or repeat it, friend.

I would argue that right now the bodies we Eternal Spirits are inside of, were meant to be as intended. The way they were created to be.

Do you have an argument to support this claim for me to consider, since I disagree?

Yes. The Eternal Creator doesn't make mistakes and intended our current human forms to function as they do. Thus they are intended to retard any memory of we having existed before, so that the experience of 'being human' is as genuine as possible. Also, said forms were not meant to completely retard ability to experience alternate realities, and this is designed so, because The Eternal Creator does not want us to forget we are Eternal Spirits, forever...

This ignores the possibility of the Creator giving creatures libertarian free will. Libertarian free will could be the cause of the mistakes. For your above reasoning to be good reasoning you need to address how your view outweighs that possibility.

Try believing yourself to being an Eternal Spirit of The Eternal Creator and see how much your view here will naturally change...to a being whom always creates through Love.

It won't automatically change our actions to loving ones. Whatever one thinks is 'loving' will simply be given divine authority and would no longer be questioned, since one views themself as divine.

Deep introspection unclouded by the filters of belief systems resisting all truth, tells us something to the contrary - but one will never know that until one learns to go that deep...

This could be said and believed by anyone of any belief system. We hold the belief systems we do because we think they aren't resisting truth. I know you think your belief system is the non-resistant one. I disagree.