#1 Jesus on hell

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Wootah
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#1 Jesus on hell

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”


Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #221

Post by PinSeeker »

tam wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:48 pm Peace to you all,

I apologize, I have not been following the conversation, but just wanted to quickly point out that there are indeed two bodies:

1 - The body that we have right now - with sin and death in it - this is the long garment of skin that was given to Adam and Eve (after they ate from the tree of knowing good and bad). Most people mistake that as being animal skins for clothing, but it is this body that they were clothed in. (Think about how Paul uses the word clothing in 2Corinth 5, re: longing to be clothed, so as not to be naked)

2 - The body that we will receive though (if indeed we receive it) - with only LIFE in it (no sin or death) - is the white robe, the spirit body (Rev 6:11).
Well, I agree, but only in a sense. God does not say, in Revelation 21, "Behold, I am making all new things." Rather, He says, "Behold, I am making all things new." And Paul is talking about being clothed in righteousness.

Grace and peace to all.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #222

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:46 am So now God has "heads and arms and legs " but no body to attach them to?
LOL!!! No... :D

He does have an "Arm" and a "Hand," though. But not literally, of course. That speaks to -- among other things -- His glory and majesty, His sovereignty, His righteousness, His justice, creative and life-giving and life-sustaining power, His wisdom, and His love. Christ is the full embodiment of that.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #223

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 1:24 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:46 am So now God has "heads and arms and legs " but no body to attach them to?
LOL!!! No... :D

He does have an "Arm" and a "Hand," though. But not literally, of course. That speaks to -- among other things -- His glory and majesty, His sovereignty, His righteousness, His justice, creative and life-giving and life-sustaining power, His wisdom, and His love. Christ is the full embodiment of that.

Grace and peace to you.
OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.

But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #224

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.
A step in the right direction, it seems. Good for you.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?
God is spirit (John 4:24). I don't have to claim it; it is what it is. Believe it or not.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #225

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:35 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.
A step in the right direction, it seems. Good for you.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?
God is spirit (John 4:24). I don't have to claim it; it is what it is. Believe it or not.

Grace and peace to you.
Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.

The truth will set you free!!

Thanks

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #226

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:19 pm Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.
No, we don't. Spirits do not have bodies.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #227

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:21 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:19 pm Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.
No, we don't. Spirits do not have bodies.

Grace and peace to you.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)


Do you see any one-to-one relationship there?

Look close.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #228

Post by 2timothy316 »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:19 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:35 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.
A step in the right direction, it seems. Good for you.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?
God is spirit (John 4:24). I don't have to claim it; it is what it is. Believe it or not.

Grace and peace to you.
Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.

The truth will set you free!!

Thanks
So I guess if there is a spiritual body there isn't always a physical body.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #229

Post by myth-one.com »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:49 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:19 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:35 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.
A step in the right direction, it seems. Good for you.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?
God is spirit (John 4:24). I don't have to claim it; it is what it is. Believe it or not.

Grace and peace to you.
Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.

The truth will set you free!!

Thanks
So I guess if there is a spiritual body there isn't always a physical body.
Why would a spiritual bodied being ever desire to also have a physical body?

Think about it.

Pain? Hunger? The ability to die?

The only case where there was some profit in that area was when the Word was made flesh for the purpose of dying.

A spiritual bodied being never also has a physical body.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #230

Post by 2timothy316 »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 7:44 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:49 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:19 pm
PinSeeker wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 5:35 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm OK, so God has a non-literal arm and hand.
A step in the right direction, it seems. Good for you.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 4:21 pm But do you still claim that God does not have a body -- literal or otherwise?
God is spirit (John 4:24). I don't have to claim it; it is what it is. Believe it or not.

Grace and peace to you.
Great. We agree that God has a spiritual body.

The truth will set you free!!

Thanks
So I guess if there is a spiritual body there isn't always a physical body.
Why would a spiritual bodied being ever desire to also have a physical body?

Think about it.

Pain? Hunger? The ability to die?

The only case where there was some profit in that area was when the Word was made flesh for the purpose of dying.

A spiritual bodied being never also has a physical body.
Interesting thing is though, that is exactly what some angels wanted. Genesis 6:1,2
So apparently they can gain a physical body. Yet that doesn't mean they had both at the same time.

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