Argument for the existence of spirit

[methylatedghosts]

This is an argument I'm going to begin to develop for the existence of spirit/soul/whatever you wanna call it. It came to me today as we were discussing dualism today in class.

I just would like some help pointing out holes in the argument and such as we go along, as I know some of you are VERY good at that

Ok, to start.

As far as I know, we have 4 dimensions

Vertical
Horizontal
Depth
Time

Would it not be possible for another dimension which I will call the "spiritual dimension" that exists in the same point

The dimension of time you cannot feel, taste, smell, hear or see. The spiritual one, you can also not feel, taste, smell, hear or see.

The basis for dualsim is that the physical and spiritual interact. If a spiritual thing exists in the same point as me, that is a part of me, and exists in a separate "spiritual" dimension, you won't be able to sense it, but it'll be there and effect the physical. In a similar sense, time has an effect on us.


Ok, away you go. I'll try and keep a regular post in to reply and TRY to counter the holes all you people poke into it =D

[ST88]

As far as I know, we have 4 dimensions

Vertical
Horizontal
Depth
Time

I know this is apropos of nothing, but since I am Mr. Digression I would like to ask if this is still being taught. I may be wrong here, but isn't thinking of time as the fourth dimension kind of antiquated? If we were to extrapolate out different dimensions, wouldn't the fourth dimension be just an additional orthogonal space above third? I think M-theory, even with its eleven-dimensional space is subject to time, which should not be thought of as a dimension in itself, but as the expression of cause/effect. You'd have an interesting thesis if you could argue that the spiritual realm was a similar kind of of expression of something else. However...

...one serious problem with this argument for the existence of spirit is that once you have identified the spiritual realm as co-existing in the same "area" with our current observable universe, you have willed it into existence and it is therefore not spiritual, but a potentially measurable phenomenon. A truly spiritual realm would not require such physical constraints.

[methylatedghosts]

...one serious problem with this argument for the existence of spirit is that once you have identified the spiritual realm as co-existing in the same "area" with our current observable universe, you have willed it into existence and it is therefore not spiritual, but a potentially measurable phenomenon. A truly spiritual realm would not require such physical constraints.

Yeah, I wasn't 100% sure on the time being a dimension thing.

That aside,

I'm not sure that the proposed spiritual dimension isn't measureable or quantifiable. We just haven't found out a way to do so is all. I'm sure you've heard the multiverse theory, that whenever a person makes a decision another "world" pops off and exists as though a different decision was made, but exists in the same "area". (although I'm not 100% sure on that either ). If that is true, then, you can't see it, can't measure it, but it is there. Also. I'm not saying that the spiritual exists ONLY in the same "area" as the known universe. It could well be that it exists beyond that. I don't know. That could be God?

Keep it up. Its making me think

EDIT:

On a side note, philosophy isn't concerned with measuring things and the such. It is more concerned about developing theorys. proving the theory is the job for scientists. Philosophy is thinking and speculation.

[joer]

Howdy Methylatedghosts! I followed a similar path last year to the conclusion you would still need faith to believe in Spirit. But those who do believe are excited to see the scientific discoveries and postulates of discovery that correlate with the expression and energy of Spirit. God Bless you my friend. Enjoy the quest. Take it as far as you can.

We had some interesting discussion if you would like to check it out. I enjoyed the proof of the “Spirit” of Santa Claus or Christmas in The Bible is not the word of God as a precursor to the attempted proof of the “Spirit of God”.


Peace to All on this thread and site.

The Bible is not the word of God

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=80


The nature of 'spirit'

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=10

Last post conclusion.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=40

[methylatedghosts]

Howdy Methylatedghosts! I followed a similar path last year to the conclusion you would still need faith to believe in Spirit. But those who do believe are excited to see the scientific discoveries and postulates of discovery that correlate with the expression and energy of Spirit. God Bless you my friend. Enjoy the quest. Take it as far as you can.

Thank you for the kind words joer.

We had some interesting discussion if you would like to check it out. I enjoyed the proof of the “Spirit” of Santa Claus or Christmas in The Bible is not the word of God as a precursor to the attempted proof of the “Spirit of God”.


Peace to All on this thread and site.

I am not sure. I think the "spirit" of santa claus is different. I am talking of "spirit" in the sense of God. Angels, if they exist, spirits, maybe ghosts, or the Holy Spirit. Whatever things along those lines you imagine spirit to be. That these things exist in a different dimension that we may not have thought of.

[joer]

You wrote:

I am not sure. I think the "spirit" of santa claus is different. I am talking of "spirit" in the sense of God. Angels, if they exist, spirits, maybe ghosts, or the Holy Spirit. Whatever things along those lines you imagine spirit to be. That these things exist in a different dimension that we may not have thought of.

Exactly! Dimensions we haven't thought of or discovered yet. Here's a brief excerpt out of one of the links I gave you:

Who knows perhaps when we find out what the other 7 dimensions of “M” theory are or the proof of the postulation of the graviton and the expected confirmation at the time of completion of the atom smasher in Scandinavia that I believe is 7 times more powerful than our current most powerful smasher, we may find some new esoteric meanings to the GOD theory. Exciting isn’t it. Also there’s the expected discovery of heavy tiny synchronous particles that are counterparts to our known electrons, protons, neutrons etc. I wonder if any of these are comparable to the basic unit of matter? If we find that perhaps we will have another clue to the Great Source and Center.

I actually believe the Spirit of God exists in all dimensions and in all creations. Man, Angels, celestial beings, living and inert material.

Peace my friends!

[Furrowed Brow]

As far as I know, we have 4 dimensions

Vertical
Horizontal
Depth
Time

I know this is apropos of nothing, but since I am Mr. Digression I would like to ask if this is still being taught. I may be wrong here, but isn't thinking of time as the fourth dimension kind of antiquated? If we were to extrapolate out different dimensions, wouldn't the fourth dimension be just an additional orthogonal space above third? I think M-theory, even with its eleven-dimensional space is subject to time, which should not be thought of as a dimension in itself, but as the expression of cause/effect. You'd have an interesting thesis if you could argue that the spiritual realm was a similar kind of of expression of something else. However...

...one serious problem with this argument for the existence of spirit is that once you have identified the spiritual realm as co-existing in the same "area" with our current observable universe, you have willed it into existence and it is therefore not spiritual, but a potentially measurable phenomenon. A truly spiritual realm would not require such physical constraints.

In Minkowski space-time the time component is represented as a negative number in relation to the three spatial dimensions e.g. x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - T^2. If that helps

[Confused]

As far as I know, we have 4 dimensions

Vertical
Horizontal
Depth
Time

I know this is apropos of nothing, but since I am Mr. Digression I would like to ask if this is still being taught. I may be wrong here, but isn't thinking of time as the fourth dimension kind of antiquated? If we were to extrapolate out different dimensions, wouldn't the fourth dimension be just an additional orthogonal space above third? I think M-theory, even with its eleven-dimensional space is subject to time, which should not be thought of as a dimension in itself, but as the expression of cause/effect. You'd have an interesting thesis if you could argue that the spiritual realm was a similar kind of of expression of something else. However...

...one serious problem with this argument for the existence of spirit is that once you have identified the spiritual realm as co-existing in the same "area" with our current observable universe, you have willed it into existence and it is therefore not spiritual, but a potentially measurable phenomenon. A truly spiritual realm would not require such physical constraints.

Using a Landscape for the Megaverse Theory actually limits dimensions only to the amount of variables given. One could break time down into forward and backward to yield 5 dimensions. The amount of dimensions could be infinite (the greatest problem with the Theory).

Overall, the problem still exists in regards to theoretical vs experimental. One could hypothesize in favor of a "spritual" plane or dimension, but why would one? What facts do we currently have that fall into the realm of science that we require a spiritual dimension to explain?

[ST88]

On a side note, philosophy isn't concerned with measuring things and the such. It is more concerned about developing theorys. proving the theory is the job for scientists. Philosophy is thinking and speculation.

Pish Tosh. Philosophy is science without all that empirical evidence to get in the way. But it is still subject to logic. Poetry is thinking and speculation (albeit out loud).

You don't need to measure something to say that it is measurable. Science measures stuff that Philosophy says is measurable.

[methylatedghosts]

On a side note, philosophy isn't concerned with measuring things and the such. It is more concerned about developing theorys. proving the theory is the job for scientists. Philosophy is thinking and speculation.

Pish Tosh. Philosophy is science without all that empirical evidence to get in the way. But it is still subject to logic. Poetry is thinking and speculation (albeit out loud).

You don't need to measure something to say that it is measurable. Science measures stuff that Philosophy says is measurable.

Philosophy is concerned more with the theory rather than the proving of it through scientific study and evidence. Proving through logic and reason, yes. Anyone can make up a philosophical theory.