Christian Salvation?

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

[JehovahsWitness]

... the judgment period will also be a period of learning what the better way to live is -- God's way. ...Having this knowledge for the first time will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision regarding whether to accept or reject everlasting life. If they accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Jesus, their names will be written in the Book of Life and they will never face death again.

So is what you call "the judgement period" when they get this "knowledge for the first time [which] will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision" be after they are resurrected?



JW

[myth-one.com]

... the judgment period will also be a period of learning what the better way to live is -- God's way. ...Having this knowledge for the first time will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision regarding whether to accept or reject everlasting life. If they accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Jesus, their names will be written in the Book of Life and they will never face death again.

So is what you call "the judgement period" when they get this "knowledge for the first time [which] will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision" be after they are resurrected?

JW

That was poorly worded by me.

Many of them will be getting it for the first time. Could be all, but I seriously doubt it.

Of course, the judgment occurs after their resurrection.

And yes, those resurrected in the second resurrection will be allowed to accept Jesus as their Savior at that time during their judgment. That will be their day of salvation.

[PinSeeker]

... the judgment period will also be a period of learning what the better way to live is -- God's way. ...Having this knowledge for the first time will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision regarding whether to accept or reject everlasting life. If they accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Jesus, their names will be written in the Book of Life and they will never face death again.

So is what you call "the judgement period" when they get this "knowledge for the first time [which] will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision" be after they are resurrected?

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, JW, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe this not to be the case, right? In other words, you, as a Jehovah's Witness, believe that at the Judgment, which comes in short order after the resurrection, this will not be when they get this knowledge for the first time and thus then be allowed to make an informed decision, right? If so, I agree. I mean, you may be thinking this very thing, but picture the situation:

• They're standing there in front of Jesus after being resurrected. Jesus is about to execute the Judgment. They are fully aware that if they are on the wrong side of it, something very bad will happen to them, and they know what they have to do to avoid it. Who in his/her right mind would choose to be on the wrong side of the Judgment (regardless what any of us understand the penalty to be)? Who? LOL! No one, that's who. They would all make the right choice.

So... THUS... in THAT case, there would be no unbelievers after the Judgment who would then be punished eternally (regardless what any of us understand that eternal punishment to be). And we know that not to be the case at all.

But alas, we know that not everyone will be saved. Some will be, unfortunately, punished (because of their unbelief in Jesus and their failure to accept Him as their Savior). So the only logical conclusion is, they already had the knowledge needed to make an informed decision (the right one) and be saved (Paul says this very thing in Romans 1), and that it was obtained before the resurrection, and obviously before their earthly lives had ended, and thus during their earthly lives. Right? Well, yes, right. I think you agree.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

... the judgment period will also be a period of learning what the better way to live is -- God's way. ...Having this knowledge for the first time will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision regarding whether to accept or reject everlasting life. If they accept the gift of everlasting life offered by Jesus, their names will be written in the Book of Life and they will never face death again.

So is what you call "the judgement period" when they get this "knowledge for the first time [which] will allow these nonbelievers to make an informed decision" be after they are resurrected?

Correct me if I'm wrong about this, JW, but Jehovah's Witnesses believe this not to be the case, right? In other words, you, as a Jehovah's Witness, believe that at the Judgment, which comes in short order after the resurrection, this will not be when they get this knowledge for the first time and thus then be allowed to make an informed decision, right? If so, I agree.

Do you believe that billions of people have died never having heard of Jesus or Christianity?

Do you believe that billions of people have died prior to Jesus even being born?

These billions have never heard of the good news of the gospel.

Do you care about them?

God does, and He tells you what their fate is in the scriptures.

Try looking for His answer.

[Jemima]

Before I dive in, I would like to ask you what Christian denomination, or other, you are?

I am a Christian who believes in the Bible as my only source of teaching....what does it matter what my brotherhood is called? Is Christianity about labels?

People wanted to call Jesus and his followers by a name that identified them as separate from the Jewish system, even though Jesus and his apostles were all Jewish. People have a natural tendency to separate out those who disagree with them.
I believe God does the same....but for very different reasons.

I have provided scripture to back up what I said......and since I am not a member of Christendom's church system, I am not involved in a 'denomination', but I am part of a global brotherhood of like minded believers who searched of the God of the Bible.....lost in centuries of apostasy at the mercy of Christendom's church system....and found him well outside of that corrupt and hopelessly divided institution.

Can you just address the scriptures I included?.....they addressed the OP after all....

[Jemima]

Do you believe that billions of people have died never having heard of Jesus or Christianity?

Yes.....and these have paid 'the wages of sin' and have the assurance of a resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This is how Jesus saves even the dead.
This resurrection takes place after God's judgment on this world. It will be when Christ rules and the earth is cleansed of all wickedness.

Do you believe that billions of people have died prior to Jesus even being born?

Yes....same applies to them. But no one who died before Jesus, was eligible for heavenly life. That means that their resurrection will be earthly.
There are two resurrections.....one to heaven for the "elect" and the other to life on earth for their subjects, where God intended us to live in the first place.

These billions have never heard of the good news of the gospel.

They will upon being resurrected. That is the whole purpose of the kingdom.....to educate and to transform this earth into the paradise that God intended it to be at the beginning.

Do you care about them?

Why do you think Jesus sent his disciples out to preach about God's Kingdom? (Matthew 13:11-14)

God does, and He tells you what their fate is in the scriptures.

What fate do you imagine that will be?

Try looking for His answer.

I found his answer in the Bible...not in a passage or two but in the whole narrative.

What is the big picture from your perspective?

[myth-one.com]

What is the big picture from your perspective?

Good Morning Jemima,

There are two type of living bodies, physical and spiritual. All physical bodies will die. Thus to gain everlasting life, one must become a spiritual bodied being.

Those who believe in Jesus as their Savior have their names written in the Book of Life as inheritors of everlasting spiritual bodies. We become joint-heirs with Jesus under the New Testament Covenant to inherit everlasting life:

• The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

Christianity splits the human race into two groups, believers and nonbelievers. But we are all the same in that all of us die the first death:

• And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Likewise, every human who ever died the first death shall be resurrected or made alive again:

• For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

So Jesus was resurrected first:

• But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet them in the air:

• Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. So there are no other human Christians on the earth. At this point, all named in the Book of Life have received their inheritance. The book has been cleared of names.

====================================================

These resurrected Christians will then spend the millennium with Jesus:

• Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

The only deceased humans remaining to be resurrected are nonbelievers. All deceased nonbelievers (the rest of the dead) are resurrected after the millennium:

• But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . . . (Revelation 20:5)

So after the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

• And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire and immediately perish.

==========================================

Remember that none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection! So why are they checking the book again?

There should be no reason to check the book of life again unless other names had been added to it DURING the judgment.

Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Names are added to or subtracted from the Book of Life as humans believe in or reject Jesus as their Savior.

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity!

This is confirmed in the scriptures. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

• For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

After the gospel is preached to them, they will accept or reject Jesus as their Savior.

Those believing in Jesus as their Savior will have their names written in the Book of Life at that time. Note above that the Book of Life was opened prior to judgment. It was not opened to read it because every believers name written in it have already received their reward at the Second Coming. So it was opened to write the names of those accepting Jesus as their Savior during their judgment.

That is why the Book of Life is checked again after the judgment. Those named in the Book of Life are born again as everlasting spiritual bodied beings at that time. All others are cast into the lake of fire and instantly suffer their second and everlasting death.

[PinSeeker]

Do you believe that billions of people have died never having heard of Jesus or Christianity?

Well, many, yes, but as Paul says, what can be known about God is plain to all, because God has shown it to all; His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So nobody has any excuse. This is Romans 1:19-20.

Do you believe that billions of people have died prior to Jesus even being born?

In addition to what I said above, they had Moses and the Prophets, who spoke of Jesus.

These billions have never heard of the good news of the gospel.

Hearing is not absolutely necessary. See above.

Do you care about them?

Of course. What kind of question is that? But then, if they have already died, what can we do about it now?

God does, and He tells you what their fate is in the scriptures.

Certainly. Regarding unbelievers, Matthew 7, Matthew 25, Luke 16, Romans 9, and Revelation 14 and 20 in particular.

Try looking for His answer.

Well, some see His answers and take them for what they are, and some don't.

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

Do you believe that billions of people have died never having heard of Jesus or Christianity?

Yes.....and these have paid 'the wages of sin' and have the assurance of a resurrection. (John 5:28-29) This is how Jesus saves even the dead. This resurrection takes place after God's judgment on this world. It will be when Christ rules and the earth is cleansed of all wickedness.

Regarding unbelievers, none of those "billions" have really paid the wages of sin yet. After the Judgment, which takes place after the resurrection, they will because they will not have an Advocate. Regarding John 5:28-29, some will be raised to a resurrection of life, and some to a resurrection of judgment, as it clearly states. Which one any one of these "billions" will be raised to depends on the outcome of the Judgment, which will be executed by Jesus upon His return and subsequent general resurrection. Matthew 26:31-46 clearly depicts this.

Do you believe that billions of people have died prior to Jesus even being born?

Yes....same applies to them. But no one who died before Jesus, was eligible for heavenly life. That means that their resurrection will be earthly. There are two resurrections.....one to heaven for the "elect" and the other to life on earth for their subjects, where God intended us to live in the first place.

Well, the resurrection of all will be earthly, as Jesus's was. Yes, there are two resurrections, one for God's Elect (to eternal life) and the other for unbelievers (to judgment), as John 5 says. And the latter will be sent away into eternal punishment, as we see in Jesus's narrative in Matthew 25:31-46.

These billions have never heard of the good news of the gospel.

They will upon being resurrected. That is the whole purpose of the kingdom.....to educate and to transform this earth into the paradise that God intended it to be at the beginning.

As I said above, actual hearing is not necessary. Paul says in Romans 1 that what can be known about God is clearly seen in everything He has made, so no one will have any excuse. I'll just add here what David and Isaiah say (respectively), that "(a)ll the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God" (Psalm 98:3) and "(t)he LORD has bared His holy arm before the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God." (Isaiah 52:10) So when they are resurrected, it will only be to life or judgment (John 5:28-29); they will have long since have heard or "heard" and been in possession of all the knowledge necessary ~ and made a decision one way or the other ~ to enter into eternal life or judgment and eternal punishment. Yes, then, the new heaven and new earth ~ which will be one, not still separate ~ and thus truly paradise, God's Garden restored. All sin and death will have been removed completely, and we (all Christians) will all dwell in the House of the LORD ~ with the Lord, upon Whose shoulders will be government and peace, which will have no end and increase... ~ forever.

Grace and peace to you, Jemima.

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

"Minimum qualifications"...? There are no minimum qualifications....there are just qualifications. Who told you there was a minimum?

According to the Bible, only a chosen few are qualified for "heavenly salvation"....but that is not the only salvation offered.
There are many who will be saved by surviving the end times, and also by resurrection in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:13)
There is a reason for the "elect" being taken to heaven...these will become "kings and priests" in God's Kingdom, assisting Christ in his assignment as High Priest and King. (Revelation 20:6)
Kings need subjects and priests need sinners for whom to perform their priestly duties. These will rule from heaven, over earthly subjects.....bringing peace and security to the inhabitants of the earth. (Revelation 21:3-4) Taking us back to the conditions of the garden of Eden, lost through no fault on our part.

Your understanding looks to be that the chosen few will be elected to govern/preach/council the ones not elected. Sounds like more of a perpetual job, verses a "Heavenly realm"

1. To your understanding, does the Bible tell the reader how many of these folks will be elected?
2. What does it take to be elected into this role?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?

All the dead will be resurrected...that includes babies, children and adults. (John 5:28-29) The wages sin pays is death, so these have paid sin's wages and will be brought back to life here on earth to be reunited with their families.

1. So when the dead baby is resurrected on earth, are they allowed time to mature; to make sound choices - (when capable)?
2. What if the rest of the family is in the elected category (Heaven)? Who raises the infant?

- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?

Everyone who is of age to make their decision will be required to make one. When the judgment comes, young children will be included with their parents.
When the flood came, God did not spare the children. Raised to defy God, there was no one worth saving except Noah and his family. Sodom and Gomorrah were razed to the ground and the same principle applied. Children perished along with their depraved parents. There is no "age of enlightenment" There is however an age of accountability.....and its not chronological.

1. Are the ones, which are allowed to make the choice, always granted the conclusion of their choice? Meaning, assuming Stalin was not part of the elect to Heaven, when Stalin is resurrected and chooses God, is his wish granted, no matter what? Meaning, is it really his choice alone? Or, must he follow some sort of protocol, after his resurrection, to prove his worth?

2. And if Stalin decides not to choose God, is he simply erased, or, instead sent to a physical eternal conscious hell?

- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?

You think God does not acknowledge our imperfections? (Psalm 103:13-14) He provides a way to gain forgiveness, so that no matter how much we fall short, we are given that opportunity. Repentance is required though.

1. I'm speaking to another about repentance.... Is it enough to harbor guilt/remorse about an action, and maybe even ask for forgiveness of that particular invoked transgression? Or, must you not actively willfully perform that 'sin' again? (i.e.) Both 'homosexuality' and 'lies' are considered transgressions.

2. Does sin have a ranking system? If so, how does one evaluate which sin is a greater offense? Or...

3. If all sin is deemed equally as bad, then we can explore both 'homosexuality' and 'lies' moving forward.

- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?

Since none of them are negotiable, I think so. Why would God have commands that do not require you to keep them?

Well, then if it required to keep all of the Commandments, all the time, then no one could ever go to Heaven. The Bible states all {mere humans} will sin. However, if repentance negates or absolves the prior transgression, we need to know what constitutes true 'repentance'?

- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?

I don't think so, unless you die before the end comes,

Wait a minute? Has the end already come and pass? If not, then your answer makes little sense?

- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?

Yes, it is the first and greatest commandment. But God cannot force you to love him.....we can only love him by getting to know him....not as the churches teach him, but as Christ himself taught his Father to be. To know him is to love him. (John 17:3)

How do you know if you love God more than you love anyone/anything else? Is it based upon your actions, other?

- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?

God forces no one to give away anything....but if we see a fellow human in need and we fail to give them practical assistance, then we can hardly call ourselves "Christians". Remember the "Good Samaritan"? The hero of the story was a hated Samaritan taking care of a Jewish victim of assault and robbery.
He did not care if he was of a different faith, because all he saw was the man in need.....and he helped him.
God expects us to share. (2 Corinthians 8:13-15)

Seems as though it would not be logically possible to actually love God more than anything else without getting rid of all but the minimum essentials? The more items in your possession, the higher the likelihood to covet. If you truly love God, above all else, wouldn't it be wise to get rid of virtually everything material, (aside from a modest place to sleep and food for the day)? If you truly love God, above all else, wouldn't it be wise to work, give most of your earnings to others in need, and only keep what is necessary for survival.

God does not seem to speaking very highly of the 'rich'. How do you know you are not considered 'rich'? Maybe your priorities are not where you think they are?

- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

A loaded question......
The answer from the Bible is....No. Because to have sexual relations with someone to whom you are not scripturally married is to commit sexual immorality. That is a crime against God and it doesn't matter what gender you are. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the act of sexual intercourse is primarily for the production of children. Pregnancy is not an unwanted side effect of someone's sex life and the sacred seed of life has a purpose and a place.....not in homosexual sex.

But what if you 'repent'?