I'm creating a new thread here to continue debate on a post made by EarthScience guy on another thread (Science and Religion > Artificial life: can it be created?, post 17). This post challenged probability calculations in an old Talkorigins article that I had linked in that thread:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/abioprob.html
Are the arguments (on creationist views) and probabilities presented reasonable in the Talkorigins article? If not, why not?
Abiogenesis and Probabilities
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DrNoGods
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Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #1In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
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John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #111[Replying to Tcg in post #110]
You still don't get it. If i say yes, i only do it in the present. That should be enough to at least make you understand that only present is real.
You still don't get it. If i say yes, i only do it in the present. That should be enough to at least make you understand that only present is real.
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Tcg
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #112It doesn't. If only the present is real, you wouldn't exist.Noose001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:56 am [Replying to Tcg in post #110]
You still don't get it. If i say yes, i only do it in the present. That should be enough to at least make you understand that only present is real.
Tcg
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Tcg
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #114I never stated that the past exists. Care to address what I did say?Noose001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:02 am [Replying to Tcg in post #112]
Why? I'm in the present.
Why do you think the past exists?
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Noose001
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #115[Replying to Tcg in post #114]
Good
The past does not exist
And, what i'm saying is:
i. The past only existed because the moment those events happened was refered to as 'the present' (the moment they were happening)
ii. I can only refer to the past in 'the present'
So?
Only the present is real.
Good
The past does not exist
And, what i'm saying is:
i. The past only existed because the moment those events happened was refered to as 'the present' (the moment they were happening)
ii. I can only refer to the past in 'the present'
So?
Only the present is real.
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Tcg
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #116You've just admitted that the past did exist in the past.Noose001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:12 am [Replying to Tcg in post #114]
Good
The past does not exist
And, what i'm saying is:
i. The past only existed because the moment those events happened was refered to as 'the present' (the moment they were happening)
Okay then.
ii. I can only refer to the past in 'the present'
Okay then.So?
Only the present is real.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Noose001
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #117[Replying to Tcg in post #116]
And so my point is:
i. If the past events happened in a moment called 'present' when they were happening
ii. The present is an experience by a mind
Q1. How did abiogenesis happen in the absence of a mind?
Q2. Do you think there was a moment in time that was never refered to/ would've never been refered to as present?
And so my point is:
i. If the past events happened in a moment called 'present' when they were happening
ii. The present is an experience by a mind
Q1. How did abiogenesis happen in the absence of a mind?
Q2. Do you think there was a moment in time that was never refered to/ would've never been refered to as present?
Last edited by Noose001 on Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tcg
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #118You've yet to establish the "absence of a mind" or what this question has to do with your claim that only the present exists.Noose001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:56 am [Replying to Tcg in post #116]
And so my point is:
i. If the past events happened in a moment called 'present' when they were happening
ii. The present is an experience by a mind
Q. How did abiogenesis happen in the absence of a mind?
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Noose001
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #119[Replying to Tcg in post #118]
Thats what i've been doing all along.
Time is not a 'thing' that started from zero(T0).
Time is a construct of a mind. T0 from this perspective is nothing more than not being aware. Otherwise, T0 from any other perspective would mean timelessness which also means eternal which means nothing ever starts/begins or ends, so you'd be hard pressed to explain the begining of the universe or the shift from T0 to T1 and beyond.
Thats what i've been doing all along.
Time is not a 'thing' that started from zero(T0).
Time is a construct of a mind. T0 from this perspective is nothing more than not being aware. Otherwise, T0 from any other perspective would mean timelessness which also means eternal which means nothing ever starts/begins or ends, so you'd be hard pressed to explain the begining of the universe or the shift from T0 to T1 and beyond.
Last edited by Noose001 on Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tcg
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Re: Abiogenesis and Probabilities
Post #120So, were you or were you not born at sometime in the past?Noose001 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:02 am [Replying to Tcg in post #118]
Thats what i've been doing all along.
Time is not a 'thing' that started from zero(T0).
Time is a construct of a mind. T0 from this perspective is nothing more than not being aware.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
