Does the Scriptures teach about Jesus' pre-existence?

[Eloi]

[Miles]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

The scriptures certainly do teach that Jesus pre-existed in heaven.

Does it say anything about his purpose back then? Or, for that matter, the purpose of the holy spirit?


.

Jesus' purpose was to have a close relationship with our Creator, Jehovah, and to learn all the things that Jehovah wanted to teach His Son. Jesus, the only archangel, worked with his Father and formed the whole universe with Him. This took many billions of years, I'm sure. So he was busy in his pre-earth existence.

And you know all this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

Jesus, the only archangel . . . .

Err, Michael and Gabriel are also recognized as archangels in Judaism, Islam, and by most Christians, with Raphael also recognized as an archangel in the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Moreover, some branches of the faiths mentioned have identified a group of seven Archangels, but the named angels vary, depending on the source.
source: Wikipedia

The Holy Spirit is simply Jehovah's expression of power with which He accomplishes whatever He wishes to do.

So the trinity as shown in the diagram below would be incorrect; the Holy Spirit is not god. Interesting.

..........................................


.

[onewithhim]

Jesus being the Word meant that he was always Jehovah's spokesman.

So Jesus was a man in the beginning, and is a man at present, in the Kingdom of God?

No, Jesus was not a man in the beginning of his life. He was a mighty spirit person in heaven with God. He was born on Earth as a man, and when he was resurrected after his death he went back to the spirit realm and ascended to heaven as a spirit, just as God is (John 4:24; I Timothy 6:16).

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

The scriptures certainly do teach that Jesus pre-existed in heaven.

Does it say anything about his purpose back then? Or, for that matter, the purpose of the holy spirit?


.

Jesus' purpose was to have a close relationship with our Creator, Jehovah, and to learn all the things that Jehovah wanted to teach His Son. Jesus, the only archangel, worked with his Father and formed the whole universe with Him. This took many billions of years, I'm sure. So he was busy in his pre-earth existence.

And you know all this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

Jesus, the only archangel . . . .

Err, Michael and Gabriel are also recognized as archangels in Judaism, Islam, and by most Christians, with Raphael also recognized as an archangel in the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Moreover, some branches of the faiths mentioned have identified a group of seven Archangels, but the named angels vary, depending on the source.
source: Wikipedia

The Holy Spirit is simply Jehovah's expression of power with which He accomplishes whatever He wishes to do.

So the trinity as shown in the diagram below would be incorrect; the Holy Spirit is not god. Interesting.

..........................................


.

The scriptures show that Jesus, before he became "Jesus," worked with his Father, God, to create everything in the universe (I Corinthians 8:6; Colossians 1:16,17; John 1:3).

Check it out for yourself by reading the Bible. You will see that there is only ONE Archangel, and that is Jesus before he took on the name "Jesus." No other angel is named as an archangel, no matter what religious tradition says. (Michael is the name Jesus had in heaven before he came to the earth and Joseph and Mary named him Jesus. Luke 1:31.)

You are correct---the Holy Spirit is not God. It is God's conduit of the power that he uses to accomplish something.


Don't take my word for it or what other religions say. Search out the truth for yourself.

[Miles]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

The scriptures certainly do teach that Jesus pre-existed in heaven.

Does it say anything about his purpose back then? Or, for that matter, the purpose of the holy spirit?


.

Jesus' purpose was to have a close relationship with our Creator, Jehovah, and to learn all the things that Jehovah wanted to teach His Son. Jesus, the only archangel, worked with his Father and formed the whole universe with Him. This took many billions of years, I'm sure. So he was busy in his pre-earth existence.

And you know all this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

Jesus, the only archangel . . . .

Err, Michael and Gabriel are also recognized as archangels in Judaism, Islam, and by most Christians, with Raphael also recognized as an archangel in the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Moreover, some branches of the faiths mentioned have identified a group of seven Archangels, but the named angels vary, depending on the source.
source: Wikipedia

The Holy Spirit is simply Jehovah's expression of power with which He accomplishes whatever He wishes to do.

So the trinity as shown in the diagram below would be incorrect; the Holy Spirit is not god. Interesting.



.

Check it out for yourself by reading the Bible. You will see that there is only ONE Archangel, and that is Jesus before he took on the name "Jesus."

Where? Where in the bible does it say there is only one archangel, and that it's Jesus?

No other angel is named as an archangel, no matter what religious tradition says.

Well Jude 1:9 does mention the archangel Michael, but I find no reference to he and Jesus being one and the same entity.

(Michael is the name Jesus had in heaven before he came to the earth and Joseph and Mary named him Jesus. Luke 1:31.)

Luke 1:31 says no such thing; that Michael is the name Jesus had in heaven. What version of the Bible are you using?


.

[myth-one.com]

Jesus being the Word meant that he was always Jehovah's spokesman.

So Jesus was a man in the beginning, and is a man at present, in the Kingdom of God?

No, Jesus was not a man in the beginning of his life. He was a mighty spirit person in heaven with God.

No, that was the Word.

He was born on Earth as a man,

Yes, that was when the Word was made flesh as the man Jesus Christ. Jesus had a physical birth into a human world.

. . . and when he was resurrected after his death he went back to the spirit realm and ascended to heaven as a spirit, just as God is (John 4:24; I Timothy 6:16).

That's the Word again.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

The scriptures certainly do teach that Jesus pre-existed in heaven.

Does it say anything about his purpose back then? Or, for that matter, the purpose of the holy spirit?


.

Jesus' purpose was to have a close relationship with our Creator, Jehovah, and to learn all the things that Jehovah wanted to teach His Son. Jesus, the only archangel, worked with his Father and formed the whole universe with Him. This took many billions of years, I'm sure. So he was busy in his pre-earth existence.

And you know all this to be a fact because _______________________________________________________________________ .

Jesus, the only archangel . . . .

Err, Michael and Gabriel are also recognized as archangels in Judaism, Islam, and by most Christians, with Raphael also recognized as an archangel in the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Moreover, some branches of the faiths mentioned have identified a group of seven Archangels, but the named angels vary, depending on the source.
source: Wikipedia

The Holy Spirit is simply Jehovah's expression of power with which He accomplishes whatever He wishes to do.

So the trinity as shown in the diagram below would be incorrect; the Holy Spirit is not god. Interesting.



.

Check it out for yourself by reading the Bible. You will see that there is only ONE Archangel, and that is Jesus before he took on the name "Jesus."

Where? Where in the bible does it say there is only one archangel, and that it's Jesus?

No other angel is named as an archangel, no matter what religious tradition says.

Well Jude 1:9 does mention the archangel Michael, but I find no reference to he and Jesus being one and the same entity.

(Michael is the name Jesus had in heaven before he came to the earth and Joseph and Mary named him Jesus. Luke 1:31.)

Luke 1:31 says no such thing; that Michael is the name Jesus had in heaven. What version of the Bible are you using?


.

Luke 1:31 shows that Mary and Joseph were instructed to name the baby "Jesus." If you will concede that Jesus' life before he came to the earth was in heaven, then don't you think that it is reasonable that he had another name in heaven? He first encountered that name, Jesus, when born onto the earth. What would his name have been in heaven? Him being "Michael" perfectly lines up with that reasoning, and the fact that Daniel 12:1 states that "the great prince" will, during the time of the end, "stand up in behalf of his people." What other being has the authority or position to mediate for God's people---other than the being we know as Jesus? I'm not aware of any other being---whether man or angel---that has that privilege. Jesus and Michael are one and the same.

I'll use any version. I refer to many versions.

[Miles]

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Miles in post #17]

Jesus was created, just as the angels were. They all had the same spirit bodies, and they were all perfect. Jesus stood out because he was created first, and the only thing created by Jehovah Himself with no one else involved. Jesus was thus special. He could have been called an angel, but he was superior to them in certain ways. Jehovah called him His Son.....His "only begotten Son." (John 3:16) Therefore he, even though with qualities like the angels, was superior to the other angels and was given a designation as "Archangel."

The Scriptures refer to him at I Thess.4:16 as descending from heaven "with an archangel's voice." I don't understand what the difficulty is with referring to Jesus as the Archangel.

[Miles]

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Miles in post #17]

Jesus was created, just as the angels were. They all had the same spirit bodies, and they were all perfect. Jesus stood out because he was created first, and the only thing created by Jehovah Himself with no one else involved. Jesus was thus special. He could have been called an angel, but he was superior to them in certain ways. Jehovah called him His Son.....His "only begotten Son." (John 3:16) Therefore he, even though with qualities like the angels, was superior to the other angels and was given a designation as "Archangel."

The Scriptures refer to him at I Thess.4:16 as descending from heaven "with an archangel's voice." I don't understand what the difficulty is with referring to Jesus as the Archangel.

The Word is a spirit which was born of the Spirit.

But Jesus was a man born of the flesh.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus Christ was made to be "a little lower than the angels":

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

That's exactly as man was created:

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,

The Bible confirms that Jesus was a man:

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

The Word was not Jesus, and Jesus was not the Word. They are two different type of beings.

Jesus was the Word made flesh:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This was the only time a spiritual being was made flesh. How that was accomplished is a mystery to all mankind -- except possibly Jesus.

Jesus had to be a man to become the mediator between God and man. That is, He fell under the Old Testament Covenant between man and God as a possible beneficiary. He became the only beneficiary under that covenant by living a human sinless life. That is, the wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, thus He qualified as an heir to everlasting life under that covenant.

God the Father then allowed Jesus to offer His inheritance to whosoever believeth in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins, under the New Testament Covenant.

This is the mechanism by which God "fixed" the fault in the original covenant:

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

The Word created the heaven and the earth, so He was made flesh for the purpose of resolving the fault in His original creation.

Having done so, there is no longer any reason for the Word made flesh to exist.