The 144,000 in JW theology

[Wootah]

My understanding only 144,000 JWs go to heaven in total over the sum of human history.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... to-heaven/

Is that correct?

There are 9 million JWs worldwide (rounded up).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesse ... w-many-jw/

Will the vast majority of them not go to heaven and be annihilated? What happens to the JWs that don't make the 144, 000?

[2timothy316]

Then Isiah 45:18, Psalm 115:16; 37:29 are all lies? Can we not trust the entire Bible?

Those verses and the entire Bible can be trusted.

There's no conflict.

Really? So the Earth does belong to mankind, the Earth will endure forever and righteous men will live forever upon it.
"The righteous will possess the earth,And they will live forever on it." Ps 37:29
"righteous ones into everlasting life." Matthew 25:46

I can trust these two scriptures?

[myth-one.com]

Then Isiah 45:18, Psalm 115:16; 37:29 are all lies? Can we not trust the entire Bible?

Those verses and the entire Bible can be trusted.

There's no conflict.

Really? So the Earth does belong to mankind, the Earth will endure forever and righteous men will live forever upon it.

"The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it." Ps 37:29
"righteous ones into everlasting life." Matthew 25:46

I can trust these two scriptures?

Absolutely, you can trust those two verses.

But Psalm 37:29 contradicts your claim that righteous men will live forever upon it.

Righteous human men do not live forever. Do you see the word "men" in the verse below?

The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

[onewithhim]

Satan is indestructible, having been created as a spiritual bodied being. ... Satan is immortal and definitely incapable of dying -- as is every other spiritual bodied being

So what happens to "death" which is also thrown into the lake of fire along with Satan?

After the last living human being is either born again as a spirit into the spiritual Kingdom of God, or cast into the lake of fire and quickly dies the second death, there will never again be any need for death and hell (where hell means the grave) because there will be no living humans. At that time, all living intelligent life will be immortal spiritual beings.

Thus, there will be no more death! Death has thus been defeated as prophesied:

The last enemy that shall be defeated is death.

I beg to differ. When Jehovah created the earth, he created it for the purpose of having physical human beings here, to have a close relationship with him and to live forever on this beautiful planet. "God blessed them, and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.'" (Genesis 1:28) The only reason that they are no longer here is that they deliberately disobeyed a simple commandment, thus vying to put themselves in the seat of deciding what was acceptable and what was not. Do you think God changed his mind about filling the earth with righteous physical human beings? If you do, please explain why he would change his mind. His purpose was fine. Nothing wrong with his original idea.

Jesus Christ's ransom is the reason why death will be no more. He died so that we could maintain our physical existence on this planet and live forever here, as God planned in the beginning. Jehovah needs no more angels in heaven.

[onewithhim]

Adam and Eve were created to live forever, . . .

If God created Adam and Eve to live forever, they would be alive today.

They would be if they had not deliberately rebelled. The Fall of Man 101.

Yes, they sinned, and they died.

By dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever.

What?? They would've lived if they had not turned against Jehovah. That is the only reason they died. Jehovah wanted his human creation to live forever. He didn't want anyone to die. But true peace and security cannot be had with disruptive, disobedient people living amongst people who are good and obedient. Adam and Eve had to be removed, and the rebels were, within a thousand years (which is as a day to Jehovah). Human beings will, after Armageddon, be able to live forever here on the earth, in physical bodies. That is why Jesus died.....so that we could have our physical human lives here, as well as vindicating his Father's name (from all the slander heaped on it by individuals who say He wants more angels in heaven and He messed up by creating physical beings.)

[myth-one.com]

Adam and Eve were created to live forever, . . .

If God created Adam and Eve to live forever, they would be alive today.

They would be if they had not deliberately rebelled. The Fall of Man 101.

Yes, they sinned, and they died.

By dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever.

What?? They would've lived if they had not turned against Jehovah. That is the only reason they died.

It took two things for them to die. They had to commit a sin, and they had to be mortal beings capable of dying.

For example, angels who sin do not die because they were created as immortal spiritual bodied beings.

Human beings will, after Armageddon, be able to live forever here on the earth, in physical bodies.

Human bodies can live to a max of about 120 years. That's somewhat shorter than infinity.

That is why Jesus died.....so that we could have our physical human lives here, as well as vindicating his Father's name (from all the slander heaped on it by individuals who say He wants more angels in heaven and He messed up by creating physical beings.)

No, Jesus died so that we might have everlasting life.

Everlasting life is not physical bodied life.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh.

But flesh and blood cannot inherit the spiritual Kingdom of God.

So man must be born again of the Spirit as a spiritual bodied being to gain everlasting life in the Kingdom of God.

That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

It's so simple.

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

[onewithhim]

Adam and Eve were created to live forever, . . .

If God created Adam and Eve to live forever, they would be alive today.

They would be if they had not deliberately rebelled. The Fall of Man 101.

Yes, they sinned, and they died.

By dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever.

What?? They would've lived if they had not turned against Jehovah. That is the only reason they died.

It took two things for them to die. They had to commit a sin, and they had to be mortal beings capable of dying.

That is correct, and they WERE mortal beings, capable of dying. (The only immortal being besides Jehovah was Jesus, as Paul wrote to Timothy, after Jesus proved obedient to the death; I Timothy 6:16, Philippians 2:8,9.)

.

[myth-one.com]

Adam and Eve were created to live forever, . . .

If God created Adam and Eve to live forever, they would be alive today.

They would be if they had not deliberately rebelled. The Fall of Man 101.

Yes, they sinned, and they died.

By dying, they proved that they were not created to live forever.

What?? They would've lived if they had not turned against Jehovah. That is the only reason they died.

It took two things for them to die. They had to commit a sin, and they had to be mortal beings capable of dying.

That is correct, and they WERE mortal beings, capable of dying. (The only immortal being besides Jehovah was Jesus, as Paul wrote to Timothy, after Jesus proved obedient to the death; I Timothy 6:16, Philippians 2:8,9.)

No, Jesus was a mortal man who died His first death.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #206]

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus is the only human to ever qualify as an heir under the Old Testament Covenant.

That is, the wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, so He is an heir to everlasting life under that original covenant.

It is His possession, He owns it! So He is the only human person that "hath immortality."

That is the meaning of "1 Timothy 6:16".

================================================

He will offer His inheritance as a free gift to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior.

That is how believers gain salvation.

But how can the one everlasting life which is Jesus' inheritance be distributed to more that one believer?

Here's how that is justified:

But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

It's the the good news.

[2timothy316]

Then Isiah 45:18, Psalm 115:16; 37:29 are all lies? Can we not trust the entire Bible?

Those verses and the entire Bible can be trusted.

There's no conflict.

Really? So the Earth does belong to mankind, the Earth will endure forever and righteous men will live forever upon it.

"The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it." Ps 37:29
"righteous ones into everlasting life." Matthew 25:46

I can trust these two scriptures?

Absolutely, you can trust those two verses.

But Psalm 37:29 contradicts your claim that righteous men will live forever upon it.

Righteous human men do not live forever. Do you see the word "men" in the verse below?

The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Who do you think will inherit the earth and live on it? Who does the earth belong to? "The Earth he has given to sons of men" - Ps 115:16
What I see the word righteous and Jesus of the righteous... "righteous ones into everlasting life." So you do see the words man or angel in Jesus statement? The word I see in Ps 37:29 is that the righteous will inherit the earth. Who did God give the Earth to? Man.

[myth-one.com]

Who do you think will inherit the earth and live on it? Who does the earth belong to? "The Earth he has given to sons of men" - Ps 115:16
What I see the word righteous and Jesus of the righteous... "righteous ones into everlasting life." So you do see the words man or angel in Jesus statement? The word I see in Ps 37:29 is that the righteous will inherit the earth. Who did God give the Earth to? Man.

If the righteous are going to rule the earth for ever and ever, then they need to live for ever and ever.

Mankind (even those who are righteous) do not live for ever and ever as humans.

The only way to live for ever is to be born again of the Spirit as a spiritual bodied being.

Only the righteous men and women who believe in Jesus will gain everlasting life and live eternally on the earth.

But once they gain everlasting they are no longer men and women but godly spiritual beings:

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Believers will have become new creatures upon being born again of the Spirit:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.