The Trinity in The Old Testament - Part 1

[ICHTHUS]

[1213]

[tigger 2]

Is. 48:16 - Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD [Jehovah], and his spirit, hath sent me. - KJV.

Commenting on this scripture some trinitarians will say: "The speaker of Is. 48:16 is Jehovah as identified by context in the first part of the verse and as shown by his identification in verse 17 where he continues to speak. But notice that Jehovah, who is speaking, says: `The Lord GOD [Jehovah] ... hath sent me.' Therefore there must be at least two persons who are Jehovah!"

The answer to such "proof" is obvious: "speaker confusion." Isaiah, like most other Bible writers, often interspersed the conversation of one person with statements by others and often doesn't identify the new speakers. Very often they appear to be comments by Isaiah himself.

That this is very likely the case here is shown, not only by context, but by these Bible translations: The RSV and the NIV Bibles show by quotation marks and indenting that Isaiah himself made the final comment in Is. 48:16.

Quotation marks in NLT, ESV, TEV, Tanakh, Holman Christian Standard Bible, ICB, New Century Version, and THE MESSAGE also show the last part of Is.48:16 to be a new speaker (not Jehovah).

The NAB (1970 and 1991 versions) also indicates a new speaker there, and, in the St. Joseph edition of the NAB, a footnote for Is. 48:16 tells us that the final statement was made by Cyrus! And the very trinitarian Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version, World Bible Translation Center, 1992, comes right out and says at Is. 48:16,

" 'Come here and listen to me! ... from the beginning, I spoke clearly, so that people could know what I said.' Then Isaiah said, `Now the Lord [Jehovah] my master sends me and his Spirit to tell you these things.' "

The New English Bible (NEB), The Revised English Bible (REB), and the Bible translation by Dr. James Moffatt (Mo) consider the last statement of Is. 48:16 to be spurious and leave it out of their translations entirely.

Certainly these mostly trinitarian translations would have rendered this scripture (and punctuated it accordingly) to show a two-Jehovah meaning (or given such an alternate rendering in the footnotes) if their trinitarian translators had thought there was even the slightest justification for such an interpretation! (Also analyze Jer. 51:19 - Jacob is the former of all things - Jehovah of hosts is his name, according to this trinitarian-type "speaker confusion" reasoning!)

"The prophet himself [Isaiah], as a type of the great prophet, asserts his own commission to deliver this message: Now the Lord God (the same that spoke from the beginning and did not speak in secret) has by his Spirit sent me, v. 16." - Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Isaiah Chapter 48 verse 16.

When trinitarian scholars and translators deny a trinity 'proof,' it is certain that said 'proof' is not a proof at all.

Instead of comparing one scripture with another to enable an interpretation for a trinity "proof," please show us where a scripture clearly teaches this most important concept. You know, e.g., "there are three persons who are the one God." Or even any place where God is described using the word "three". Such an important concept MUST be clearly taught in scripture and not just in 4th century edicts.

[ICHTHUS]

What knowledge of Biblical Hebrew do you personally have? What I have posted in the OP is beyond any dispute to anyone who knows Hebrew, and is not biased against the Holy Trinity.

[2timothy316]

What knowledge of Biblical Hebrew do you personally have? What I have posted in the OP is beyond any dispute to anyone who knows Hebrew, and is not biased against the Holy Trinity.

So do you have a degree in Hebrew?

[tigger 2]

Please show us where a scripture clearly teaches this most important concept of the identity of God. You know, e.g., "there are three persons who are the one God." Or even any place where God is described using the word "three". Such an important concept MUST be clearly taught in scripture and not just in 4th century edicts.

Just one scripture using the word "three" describing God??

[tigger 2]

Or, if you can't find that, how about just one dream or vision where God is shown to us as more than one Person (the Father, YHWH)? Acts 7:55, 56 would be a good place to begin your search.

[tigger 2]

Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God" NASB1995.

Here's one such vision. How does it show that Jesus is God? Where's the HS?

[tigger 2]

[Replying to tigger 2 in post #8]

To Anyone:
Instead of comparing one scripture with another to enable an interpretation for a trinity "proof," please show us where a scripture clearly teaches this most important concept. You know, e.g., "there are three persons who are the one God." Or even any place where God is described using the word "three". Such an important concept, if true, MUST be clearly taught in scripture and not just in 4th century edicts.

[Overcomer]