Does consciousness exist?

[bernee51]

"Does consciousness exist?"

William James asked in 1904, in an essay of the same name.

He answered that consciousness does not exist. He based this on the thought that if one looks at consciousness carefully it will be seen that it’s not a thing, not an object, not an entity. Consciousness is simply one with whatever is immediately arising. I look at a mountain. Biologically, that is, as part of the biosphere, I see the shape, form etc. With consciousness, ‘seeing ‘ with the mind, actng in the noosphere, I do not so much see the mountain as experience it. It is not an object. The mountain and I are one in the immediacy of the experience.

So in this sense, consciousness does not exist.

Objective studies of consciousness, however, hold that it develops (evolves?) as we go through life stages. Starting out at the sensoriphysical, moving through impulse and image, symbols and concepts and so on. This gives the idea that, as it can be studied, consciousness is an objective entity.

So, does consciousness exist?

[bernee51]

"Does consciousness exist?"

Do you know who you are?

Very good question.

What is your answer to the question "Who am I?"

I am Fisherking on this message board.

That is how you are described. it is a thought, an object in awareness. But who's awareness? Who is doing the describing?

Do you know who you are?

Knowing and being are two different things. I know 'who I am' - being that is a constant quest.

[bernee51]

it seems eroneous for "consciousnes" to be defined as nonexistant, becuase for all practical purposes, i am (regardless how diluded it is) conscious.

this is the same argument against nihilism, becuase regardless if this existance is an illusion, i (on some plane) appear to myself to exist on it, as does my consciousness..

Is it 'your' consciousness? or simply consciousness? is your consciousness different to mine? By 'your cosnsciousness' I do not mean how cosnciousness manifests itself in you but consciousness itslf - what might be called 'pure consciousness'.

[AClockWorkOrange]

Is it 'your' consciousness? or simply consciousness? is your consciousness different to mine? By 'your cosnsciousness' I do not mean how cosnciousness manifests itself in you but consciousness itslf - what might be called 'pure consciousness'.

this is a matter of ego vs something like tao or brahmin, right?

i suppose in the most hypothetical sense, such ideals of pure, universal consciousness is nice.

i have to, based on observation alone, admit that i am only familiar, for all practical purposes, with my own consciousness. I cannot know if mine is different than yours, or if i am apart of a tapestry and the atman dwells in me connecting me to the brahmin, becuase i have only observed existance under the impression that i am autonomous and my consciousness is seperated.

however, the "universal consciousness" thing struck me as something interesting.
it seems to me, based on what i can see, that the inevitability of all things and the nature of the universe is death, so pehapes pure consciousness is lack of, since that is the APPERENTLY the end result.

[bernee51]

this is a matter of ego vs something like tao or brahmin, right?

i guess it is if you consider 'ego' to be the sense of an individual consciousness versus 'brahman' being wjhat a vedantis t would call universal consciousness

i have to, based on observation alone, admit that i am only familiar, for all practical purposes, with my own consciousness.

You are conscious as am I. How it manifests in you and I is obviously going to be different.

I cannot know if mine is different than yours, or if i am apart of a tapestry and the atman dwells in me connecting me to the brahmin, becuase i have only observed existance under the impression that i am autonomous and my consciousness is seperated.

an advaita vedantist would claim that atman and brahman are one - there is no 'connection'.

Is the sense of individual consciousness you observe as autonomous the same now as it was 20 or 30 years ago?

it seems to me, based on what i can see, that the inevitability of all things and the nature of the universe is death, so pehapes pure consciousness is lack of, since that is the APPERENTLY the end result.

Pure consciousness = lack of death! I never thought of it like that.

[AClockWorkOrange]

now that i think of it, death seems to be the most pure and universal state, so perhaps consciousness is over rated.

hrm...

[bernee51]

now that i think of it, death seems to be the most pure and universal state, so perhaps consciousness is over rated.

hrm...

Death certainly lasts a lot longer than (individual) consciousness.

Which is why i tend to focus more on the 'beforedeath' than the 'afterlife'

[Goat]

it seems eroneous for "consciousnes" to be defined as nonexistant, becuase for all practical purposes, i am (regardless how diluded it is) conscious.

this is the same argument against nihilism, becuase regardless if this existance is an illusion, i (on some plane) appear to myself to exist on it, as does my consciousness..

Is it 'your' consciousness? or simply consciousness? is your consciousness different to mine? By 'your cosnsciousness' I do not mean how cosnciousness manifests itself in you but consciousness itslf - what might be called 'pure consciousness'.

What is a workable defintion of 'consciousness'? Being self aware??

[bernee51]

it seems eroneous for "consciousnes" to be defined as nonexistant, becuase for all practical purposes, i am (regardless how diluded it is) conscious.

this is the same argument against nihilism, becuase regardless if this existance is an illusion, i (on some plane) appear to myself to exist on it, as does my consciousness..

Is it 'your' consciousness? or simply consciousness? is your consciousness different to mine? By 'your cosnsciousness' I do not mean how cosnciousness manifests itself in you but consciousness itslf - what might be called 'pure consciousness'.

What is a workable defintion of 'consciousness'? Being self aware??

Self awareness is an aspect of consciousness. Consciousness itself is a function of the nervous system and is a continuum which would appear to start with cell irritability. This is an apparatus that allows an entity to take actions of its own and to control actions through irritation of nerve cells.

Perhaps then a working definition of consciousness may be:

cell-irritation = control of actions = consciousness