Us

[nobspeople]

So as to not sidetrack the 'dominion' thread, who are the 'us' in the below:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
For discussion:
If there was only one god before creation (as many claim), who is the 'us' being referred to here?
Does god see itself in the plural?
Was jesus there with god?
Were there other gods there at the same time?
Or, if you like, how do YOU justify the 'us' here, in this quote?

[cms]

So I would continue to maintain that while God is clearly Christ's spiritual Father (the Word is tantamount to God's seed), the question of who Christ's material mother is remains open. What is the material womb that receives the Word and brings it into the world of flesh?

Theophile, To me, the Word made flesh means that Jesus took the words of God into his heart and actually lived them. They were no longer just words on a page or "dead" words to the ears ( in one ear and out the other).

"It is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you say "Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear and do it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, "who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us , that we may hear and do it?" But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it."

[cms]

Just to clarify: Are you saying you think these other people helped God created man?

I'm just unsure who you are saying is the 'us' when God said "Let US make man in our image." I apologize if you answered that earlier in the thread, and I missed it.

Tam, no problem. I did post some other possibilities earlier. Other people teach the way of righteousness and nurture the spirit. This is what Jesus did.

[tam]

Peace to you,

But Christ is Himself the (living) Word being written about in John 1, through whom all things were made (that have been made), and WHO became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

Tam, Thanks for your response.

You're welcome, and thank you also! Please don't think the following is meant to be argumentative. I am just sharing as I have received.

For me, there is only one God who created the earth as a home for mankind and all His other creatures.

I also agree that there is one God (who is the MOST Holy One), though He does have a Son (Christ, who is the Holy One of God).

I don't believe that God needed any help in doing so.

I wouldn't say it is a matter of needing help, but a matter rather of love.

This is something I received from Him, through His Son, to share some time back:

Our Father IS love, and His love is SO great... His energy SO great... that when He SPOKE (shouted from the rooftops)... He brought forth Life. Christ. From God's love and energy being so GREAT, that life came from Him.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[cms]

I also agree that there is one God (who is the MOST Holy One), though He does have a Son (Christ, who is the Holy One of God).

From what I understand, God does have a son/sons. "All who are led by the Spirit are sons of God. And "Your bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit."

[cms]

Our Father IS love, and His love is SO great... His energy SO great... that when He SPOKE (shouted from the rooftops)... He brought forth Life. Christ. From God's love and energy being so GREAT, that life came from Him.

I agree that God brought forth life and gave it to mankind. "And God breathed into him the breath of life."( The Spirit)

[theophile]

So I would continue to maintain that while God is clearly Christ's spiritual Father (the Word is tantamount to God's seed), the question of who Christ's material mother is remains open. What is the material womb that receives the Word and brings it into the world of flesh?

Theophile, To me, the Word made flesh means that Jesus took the words of God into his heart and actually lived them. They were no longer just words on a page or "dead" words to the ears ( in one ear and out the other).

Sure, if we love God, and want to enter into union (/marriage) with God, then this is what we must do.

While I'm abstracting in my previous post (in order to make a point about what it means to be made in God's image or, more extreme, to be a child of God), I'm not trying to overcomplicate. It boils down to simple stuff even as we need to be careful because it is by no means simple. Let's be clear: Christ is and was a miracle.

And to the previous point I was making, even your simple formula here still implies the very union between Spirit and matter that I've been talking about, and only begs the question of who / what was the progenitor of Jesus' fleshly nature. (As much as you may want to say it did, it did not come from God, who is spirit.)

[William]

So I would continue to maintain that while God is clearly Christ's spiritual Father (the Word is tantamount to God's seed), the question of who Christ's material mother is remains open. What is the material womb that receives the Word and brings it into the world of flesh?

Theophile, To me, the Word made flesh means that Jesus took the words of God into his heart and actually lived them. They were no longer just words on a page or "dead" words to the ears ( in one ear and out the other).

Sure, if we love God, and want to enter into union (/marriage) with God, then this is what we must do.

While I'm abstracting in my previous post (in order to make a point about what it means to be made in God's image or, more extreme, to be a child of God), I'm not trying to overcomplicate. It boils down to simple stuff even as we need to be careful because it is by no means simple. Let's be clear: Christ is and was a miracle.

And to the previous point I was making, even your simple formula here still implies the very union between Spirit and matter that I've been talking about, and only begs the question of who / what was the progenitor of Jesus' fleshly nature. (As much as you may want to say it did, it did not come from God, who is spirit.)

"The Word" as I understand it, has everything to do with sound - the sound was an aspect of spirit which caused matter to correlate and experience of said matter to be had by spirit.

In the thread "The Sound Of Silence" I examine the relationship between sound and formation re The Universe's existence.

[cms]

And to the previous point I was making, even your simple formula here still implies the very union between Spirit and matter that I've been talking about, and only begs the question of who / what was the progenitor of Jesus' fleshly nature. (As much as you may want to say it did, it did not come from God, who is spirit.)

Theophile, I believe Jesus was a man who came from a human mother and a human father.

[theophile]

And to the previous point I was making, even your simple formula here still implies the very union between Spirit and matter that I've been talking about, and only begs the question of who / what was the progenitor of Jesus' fleshly nature. (As much as you may want to say it did, it did not come from God, who is spirit.)

Theophile, I believe Jesus was a man who came from a human mother and a human father.

Of course he did. But there is a Father-Son metaphor at work in the bible that needs to be accounted for. Also the whole virgin conception thing. So unless you also believe these should just be ignored?

[theophile]

So I would continue to maintain that while God is clearly Christ's spiritual Father (the Word is tantamount to God's seed), the question of who Christ's material mother is remains open. What is the material womb that receives the Word and brings it into the world of flesh?

Theophile, To me, the Word made flesh means that Jesus took the words of God into his heart and actually lived them. They were no longer just words on a page or "dead" words to the ears ( in one ear and out the other).

Sure, if we love God, and want to enter into union (/marriage) with God, then this is what we must do.

While I'm abstracting in my previous post (in order to make a point about what it means to be made in God's image or, more extreme, to be a child of God), I'm not trying to overcomplicate. It boils down to simple stuff even as we need to be careful because it is by no means simple. Let's be clear: Christ is and was a miracle.

And to the previous point I was making, even your simple formula here still implies the very union between Spirit and matter that I've been talking about, and only begs the question of who / what was the progenitor of Jesus' fleshly nature. (As much as you may want to say it did, it did not come from God, who is spirit.)

"The Word" as I understand it, has everything to do with sound - the sound was an aspect of spirit which caused matter to correlate and experience of said matter to be had by spirit.

In the thread "The Sound Of Silence" I examine the relationship between sound and formation re The Universe's existence.

Sound results from the vibration of matter. There is no sound in a vacuum. So we agree there must have been something versus nothing at the beginning and creatio ex nihilo is a false theology.

But it also takes matter to vibrate matter. So what is the interface between spirit and matter that enables their interaction? Or maybe we need to better define what 'spirit' is.

Last, where does it get us putting such primacy on sound? I'm trying to get a sense of where this all leads. You posit in your other post that "sound creates the universe," but it certainly did not do so from nothing (see above), and in itself sound is... just a vehicle, or medium. I would rather suggest it is the Word itself, that sound may carry, that is the true creative force.