Christianity in your mind's eye

[historia]

Christianity is one of the world's largest and most diverse religious traditions.

And yet, for brevity's sake, it's convenient to make reference to 'Christianity' or 'Christians' on this forum without having to reel off a litany of qualifiers about which particular churches, beliefs, and practices we are describing. But do we all have the same thing in mind when we do this?

Consider these comments from a couple of our friendly neighborhood atheists:

Take mainstream Catholic teaching, remove Mary, mother of God stuff, remove Papal authority. That's my working assumption of what Christianity is

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that says they're Christian is Christian, but pretending that the Catholics are anything but the standard for orthodoxy is chutzpah.

Questions for debate:

When making reference to 'Christianity' in general terms, should we all have in mind Roman Catholicism (or something close to that)?

Is that, in fact, the expression of Christianity you have in your mind when you personally use the term 'Christianity'?

[TRANSPONDER]

I really have in mind a belief in the basics of the Bible, (Faith in Jesus as Saviour from sins, effectively) but of course I do think in terms of Western -type Protestantism.
Catholicism is next with a focus on the pronouncements of the Pope and Vatican which impress me about as much a pronouncement from the CPC.

After that comes LDS which is significant but in my mind a different Thing based in Christianity; and Greek and Russian orthodox is hardly a thing to think about; they simply don't encroach on the ongoing debate going on.

It's an odd thing though, how we get discussion not (ostensibly) about Christianity but about some sorta 'god', which you'd think is irrelevant. But I think we all know that trying to wangle a 'god' into credibility by various kinds of ID or Ontological arguments is just a springboard to Biblegod, take your own denomination from there.

[nobspeople]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Throughout the years, I've learned that there are many 'christians' that don't believe in what I always thought was standard christainity: being saved, heaven/hell, rapture, judgement day, jesus is god but also man and sacrificed himself for humanity's innate sin that was derived from all that Adam and Eve business (for starters). I've also never considered JWs or Mormons 'christian' (though many do, but it's still debatable among some).

For me, when speaking to a large group of people, I have to whittle down 'christianity' to, basically: if they claim they're a christian, they're a christian no matter their beliefs.
That's not to say I believe them to be a christian simply by saying it (reading of some posts of 'christians' on here would lead me to believe not believing someone is a christian simply by claiming so is more than a right choice).
But, by accepting one's christianity on their word, we run into issues with assumptions on both sides: I assumed you believed in XYZ; I assumed you knew I didn't believe in ABC.

The answer to your question, for me, is two fold:
a) How to answer here on the forum, &
b) How to answer in real life

As this is the forum (option a from above), I have to assume the basics as: god had a son named jesus that is a sacrifice to humanity; jesus died and rose again.
Assuming they believe more than that opens up a whole can o' worms that I, for you, don't care to open.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

You already have my answer up there, I would just add that around half of all Christians are Catholics, around a third are Protestants. Catholic minus the distinctly Catholic ideas is a pretty safe starting point.

[theophile]

Christianity is one of the world's largest and most diverse religious traditions.

And yet, for brevity's sake, it's convenient to make reference to 'Christianity' or 'Christians' on this forum without having to reel off a litany of qualifiers about which particular churches, beliefs, and practices we are describing. But do we all have the same thing in mind when we do this?

It's become a pretty loaded term. The best posts (IMO) are those that target specific denominations, ideas, or beliefs. Otherwise there's a whole lot of talking past each other going on and unspoken assumptions at play.

But if there is such a thing as Christianity, I would argue it's something that cuts across church or theology, including the non-Christian and any so-called atheism. It's not, as some have said, a matter of identity, or simply labelling oneself as such. Nor is it a matter of membership in a specific group or belief-system. Rather it's a matter of being in the Spirit (whether you know it or not). And while we can debate all day what that means, I'm pretty sure it isn't marked by believing (or not believing) X, or saying Y.

It's more a matter of being / doing.

[Tcg]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

Christianity is quite the hodgepodge. We should of course have Roman Catholicism in mind when we think of Christianity, but we must include much more than that. And even Catholicism shouldn't be viewed as one homogenous group. Some claim to know what Catholics believe based on what the church teaches, but simply because the church takes a certain stance doesn't mean all Catholics will agree. Abortion is a clear example. The church opposes abortion and yet the majority of Catholics think it should be legal at least in some cases.

While it gets much less press than Catholicism at least in the West, Eastern Orthodoxy may be closer to the early church and is certainly a major part of Christianity. I must admit however, when I think of Christianity, this branch doesn't usually come to mind primarily because I have had no direct experience with it.

My direct experience lies primarily with the Protestant branch so in my mind's eye that is what I usually think of at least at first. I suppose one could spend a lifetime exploring the variations here from the ultra-conservative Amish/Mennonites to those who express their worship more boisterously like the Charismatics and never have a full understanding all the various beliefs and practices.

Add to this the Quakers who accepted me an atheist warmly into their fellowship, and we see that in a certain sense there is no one Christianity at least not a single unified group. What's that old joke, ask ten Christians their opinions on any given doctrine and you'll get eleven answers.


Tcg

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to historia in post #1]

When I have Christianity in mind, I have the entire hodge podge of (often) conflicting narratives from both the Bible and the various denominations. In other words, I don't boil it down to the most basic tenets (can ALL Christians even do that?), I instead consider the entire net of beliefs that fall under the banner 'Christianity'. When I think Christianity now (as an ex Christian), I think 'that whole confused mess depending on who you talk to'.

To me, this is the real issue when debating Christianity. One can't just assume Christianity includes X and try to debate that. The best approach, IMHO, is to debate the various claims made by individual Christians. Let them define what claim they believe and then debate that if desired.

[cms]

It's more a matter of being / doing.

I agree. In my mind, Christianity = Jesus, a person who loved others as himself.

we see that in a certain sense there is no one Christianity at least not a single unified group.

Tcg,this is true, and yet, bringing everyone together into one single unified group is what the NT and Christianity were all about. We're not supposed to be divided. It was originally one faith in one God and one word/law: love others as yourself.

[theophile]

Duplicate

[theophile]

Tcg,this is true, and yet, bringing everyone together into one single unified group is what the NT and Christianity were all about. We're not supposed to be divided. It was originally one faith in one God and one word/law: love others as yourself.

But to be clear, I don't think any church, except perhaps the early church and pockets here and there, achieves anything close to what this "unified group" was meant to be (even if, say, Catholicism is all there was). I'm certain many atheists qualify as far better Christians than many card-carrying members of a so-called 'Christian' church.

Where a church baptizes with water, true entrance to Christianity is through Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13
"For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves[a] or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit."