Where is, and recognizing the devil

[nobspeople]

How can one recognize the devil?
"Be careful! Watch out for attacks from the devil, your great enemy. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for some victim to devour. Take a firm stand against him, and be strong in your faith" (I Peter 5:8-9)
There it's said he's a like a roaring lion, but here
"Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers" (II Corinthians 11:14-15).
it says he can be like an angel of light.

So which is it? A roaring lion or light angel? Contradictory much? Or maybe, the devil can be both things, at which point we're right back to the first question, how can one recognize him.

"Humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you" (James 4:7).
This seems to say if you're humble before god, you can resist the devil and he will leave you. But it still doesn't say how to recognize him.
This:
"He was a murderer from the beginning and has always hated the truth. There is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies" (John 8:44).
doesn't seem to help recognizing him, either - just tells you what it claims the devil is.

Seems the devil is more of a spirit and less of a legitimate 'thing' (though some claim it's a very real person - see link below*, which seems odd to use the term 'person'), so maybe, to recognize it, when need to know where it lives today.
Pergamum was said to be “where the throne of Satan is” and “where Satan is dwelling.” (Revelation 2:13). However, some think this refers more to the satanic worship than an actual residence. Odd that god would let some think this and others think something else, but that's another story to address elsewhere.
The Bible says that the Devil rules over “all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth,” so he does not dwell in any one physical location on earth but is confined to the vicinity of the earth.​—(Luke 4:​5, 6).

For discussion: How does one recognize the devil? Or does that even matter? And where is the devil today?

* https://www.focusonthefamily.com/family ... the-devil/

[2ndpillar2]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

There is no verifiable evidence of the devil and no reason to accept that such a being exists. A good way to understand religious concepts is to examine the function they serve. The concept of a devil seems to serve the function to explain why pain and suffering exists and yet bypass blaming God for it. The devil is a scapegoat to protect God from blame.

Life can be beautiful and yet also painful and hard. There is no reason to credit God for one or blame the devil for the other. That's simply the essence of life.

Tcg

I am sure you have noteworthy pain, and that life is hard for you, but the devil's role was apparently to introduce death to mankind. Sweat and toil was the result of being thrown out of the garden of Eden. The devil's apparent present purpose is to keep one on the wide path to "destruction"/death by way of his false prophets (Matthew 7:13). Apparently, things are working out for the devil, for everybody will die. You can blame God all you want, it doesn't affect God, and it doesn't save you from death, and apparently from pain. As for the devil being a being, that is debatable. If demons require a body to exist, such as a swine, or a human, then the notion of a devil being a being is not what one might expect. Apparently, the devil likes mystery, such as secret societies, which try to bring about heaven on earth, such as the Illuminati, incorporated into other secret organizations such as the Masons and brought into the light as Marxism/Progressivism, now being implemented as the great reset, in which you will own nothing and be happy. Of course, the backer/contributor of the great reset, Bill Gates and Soros, expect to own everything, and like with Stalin, their progressive young followers will be taken to a vacation in the Gulag or simply released from all pain by a somewhat quick death.

As I said, there is no verifiable evidence of the devil. Your post doesn't address this fact.


Tcg

You have to define something before you can verify its existence. If you miss define the devil, as you have apparently done, you have a problem. If one defines the devil as the father of lies, then of course, the lies that exist, unfolds that there must be a devil/dragon/serpent. The fact that your life is apparently hard and painful, most probably because of bad decisions, you have to ask yourself, from what source, was the foundation for those bad decisions. To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

[Diagoras]

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Given the paucity of useful information in the Bible on the subject, it might be helpful to look further afield for clues to where the Devil came from.

Angra Mainyu in Zoroastrianism is described as a malign and destructive spirit, in direct opposition to the Creator of the world, Ahura Mazda. From the link:

Zoroastrianism had a profound influence on the development of Judaism as a result of the Babylonian Exile (597-537 B.C.E.), when the tribes of Israel were captured and indentured in Babylon. During this period, the tribes of Israel were exposed to Zoroastrian beliefs, some of which were assimilated into Judaism. Zoroastrian ideas also influenced the development of Mithraism and Manichaeism, which spread to the Roman Empire. In these ways, it is likely that the Zoroastrian concept of Angra Mainyu may have indirectly influenced the development Christian views of evil.

Recognising that stories about powerful evil spirits have existed for thousands of years is a good start when considering whether the Devil is fact or fiction.

[brunumb]

But, I think one way to know the devil is to read what he has done in the Bible. For example, in the case of Adam and Eve. I think he deceived Eve by appealing to her vanity and ego.

One of the downsides of being created in God's image was that she acquired his vanity and ego. Can't really give the devil all of the blame.

[Tcg]

You can see Satan in anything that opposes God. Lying, stealing, fornication, murder...etc (all sin basically) is where you will find Satan. He is the originator of the temptation to sin and he is smack-dab in the middle of sin.

You'd need to establish the existence of Satan before this post could be evaluated.


Tcg

No I don't. God has already established the existence of Satan.

Perhaps, but you haven't. In a debate forum you need to support your claims rather than rely on another to do so for you.


Tcg

[Tcg]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

[1213]

...she acquired his vanity and ego. ...

Sorry, i don’t see any reason to think the vanity and ego would be God’s qualities.

[2ndpillar2]

To know the devil, it might be a good start, to know oneself.

I know myself perfectly well, but that is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. I'm still waiting for you to provide verifiable evidence of the devil.


Tcg

Apparently, according to your description of your "devil", it does not correspond to the biblical "devil", and therefore it might be hard to verify something that doesn't exist. As for knowing yourself, well, apparently you know of your own pain and suffering, yet do not seem to want to verify why you have pain and suffering. Find out why, and you may zoom in on the identity and verification of the devil, and how he works. Of course, if someone is a masochist, then they might want to hold on to their pain and suffering.

[Chapabel]

You can see Satan in anything that opposes God. Lying, stealing, fornication, murder...etc (all sin basically) is where you will find Satan. He is the originator of the temptation to sin and he is smack-dab in the middle of sin.

You'd need to establish the existence of Satan before this post could be evaluated.


Tcg

No I don't. God has already established the existence of Satan.

Perhaps, but you haven't. In a debate forum you need to support your claims rather than rely on another to do so for you.


Tcg

Ok, here you go:
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Zechariah 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

So there are 6 verses that establish Satan as a being. Three from the OT and three from the NT.

[Tcg]

You could say that, but you'd be wrong: James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

God did indeed place the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden and command man not to eat of it. God wants us to obey Him because we choose to, not because we have to. In order to choose God, there has to be a choice between Him and something else.

And yes, Satan is a being, not just a concept.

In this sub-forum the Bible is not considered authoritative. If you intend to support your claim that Satan is a being, not just a concept, you'll need to do so without relying on the Bible. What can you provide that qualifies?


Tcg

[Tcg]

So there are 6 verses that establish Satan as a being. Three from the OT and three from the NT.

Once again, in this sub-forum the Bible is not considered authoritative. What else have you?


Tcg