JW's claim of Kingdom of God establish in 1914?

[Revelations won]

What was the date of this claim of the Kingdom of God restored in 1914?

What did God do to set up the Kingdom of Heaven?

Is there any record of what he said to accomplish this great event?

Did the JW's originally claim that Christ would come on the date they claimed?

Let us hear your clear answers to the above questions.

Kind regards,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #18]

Where is is it foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures that the messiah would sacrifice himself. ...

At Daniel 9 verse 26 which reads "And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain: and the people that shall deny him shall not be his. " - Douay-Rheims Bible

ISAIAH 53 applies to the Christ. It reads in part...

... He will come up like a twig+ before him,* like a root out of parched land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; ... He was despised, and we held him as of no account. 4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, and he bore our pains. ... he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke. 9 And he was given a burial place with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, although he had done no wrong and there was no deception in his mouth.

ISAIAH 53 : 12

Because he poured out his life even to death and was counted among the transgressors; he carried the sin of many people

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[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

Daniel said CHRIST WILL BE SLAIN?

Where are you getting your translation?

Sixty two weeks? Where do you start counting your weeks?

[JehovahsWitness]

THE MESSIAH RETURNS!

DANIEL 7:13 New King James Version

“I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven!

Obviously, for the Messiah to be put to death as a Jewish son of Abraham by his own people (Dan 9:26) AND to arrive resembling the "son of man" (a human) from a heavenly dimension (cloud of the heaavens) - Dan 7:13 - one of the two scriptures (logically the latter) must refer to "a return" .







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[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

I feel sorry for you. Your translations have robbed you of the truth.

First
Daniel uses the word mashiach which means anointed one. And the word moshiach is NEVER used in the Hebrew Scriptures to mean the one that is today called the messiah. NEVER!! Christian bibles translate it as ANOINTED ONE every place else but in Daniels 'weeks' they translate it as Messiah. And then they put a 'THE' in front of it and capitalize Messiah.
Christian bibles translate the word correctly in every place EXCEPT here in Daniel.

Did you hear me? The word moshiach is NEVER...NEVER used to mean what we call the Messiah today.
The Hebrew Scriptures is where people learned of the Jewish Messiah. You can not like it all you want. The church's can't change what it says in Hebrew. It's not about Jesus. And it's not even about the one we, the Jews, are waiting for.
The only way you can make it out to be Jesus is to accept your mistranslation. But if lies are what your truth is based on then lies are what you have.

Oh...and your Isaiah quote.... It DOES NOT say HE received the stroke. It says THEY.....THEY were stricken. Church couldn't have that so they changed it to HE. They...they..it's about Israel. And if you read the chapters surrounding 53 you'll see Israel described as despised and stricken. And Isaiah even says over and over that the servant is Israel.

Does the truth mean anything to you? Or will you just continue misquoting it too? Well, it would have been a misquote before you learned differently. From here on it would be a conscience lie. You can pretend you never heard it but God knows better. Don't take my word for it. Look it up yourself. And don't do it for me. Here's your chance to show God you really do seek the truth.

[Avoice]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

What's with all the imagery?
I don't need pictures. They mean nothing. You are getting those from Watchtower. I know their style of art. The artists are quite good actually. I love the ones showing the perfectly groomed families.. Like the Nelson's or the Cleavers. Half of Watchtower is pictures. Images don't impress me. Good artists but faith doesn't come from things seen.
Hey...if you believe Jesus died for you, fine. Do something for him. Cover him up. Can you do that? You wouldn't put a picture of you or a loved one up nearly naked so show him the same courtesy. Don't shame him

[JehovahsWitness]

Daniel uses the word mashiach which means anointed one.

The ENGLISH "Messiah" is a transliteration of the Hebrew mashiach which does indeed mean anointed one (Greek Christos).

Whether an ENGLISH translator uses the word mashiach, anointed one, Messiah or Christ the terms all carry the same meaning.

Who it refers to is a matter of debate; there is ample evidence in certain HEBREW passages (such as in Daniel and Isaiah) ha*-mashiach refers to a promised Jewish liberator.

[ * ] The lack of the definite article does not automatically mean the word is indefinite; in Hebrew rhz insertion of a definite article is often contextually discretionary or self evident. Whether Daniel reads "...until ..." anointed one /messiah" , " an anointed one /messiah" or "the anointed one /messiah" makes little difference to the meaning of the text which is clearly pointing to an individual rather than a mere concept.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that promised Jewish Messiah (mashiach/anointed one/Christ ) found his embodiment in the person of Jesus of Nazaerth and that all such scriptures point primarily to him






JW


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[JehovahsWitness]

The Hebrew Scriptures is where people learned of the Jewish Messiah. ... It's not about Jesus.

Your opinion has been noted; thank you for sharing. I presume you understand that not everyone is going to agree with you. (See above).



JW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Avoice in post #15]

Just because Jesus IS the Messiah doesn't mean that he has "completed his work." The Messiah still has work to do and he's very busy now.

[JehovahsWitness]

And if you read the chapters surrounding 53 you'll see Israel described as despised and stricken. And Isaiah even says over and over that the servant is Israel.

The Hebrew bible is definitely multilayered in nature with prophecy often having one, two or more fulfillments. Isaiah and to a lesser extent Daniel, definitely contain prophetic aspects which apply to the people of Israel. This however does not negate the fact that since not all aspects of all passages can be applied to the descendants of Abraham, we can looknelsewhere to see if there are other (even other major) fulfilments.

The above is definitely the case in the passages mentioned . For example in Isaiah chapter 53, (where Israel is suddenly not mentioned at all) the focus shifts to indicate an individual rather than a group of individuals. Although one might interpret "The suffering Messiah" to be symbolic of the afflicted nation of Israel, we note features that make this interpretation less than logical.

- the sickness and sin (bliblicaly only atonned for by blood sacrifice) was carried by this anointed one (v4, v 11b, v12c) for the nation.

- the nation of Israel were punished for their own sins , Isaiah tells, this one was entirely innocent and punished for the nation's sins (verses 5a , 6b)

- the nation rejected this Messiah, how then can the Messiah represent both the rejected and the "rejectee" (v3)?

- the Israelites were exiled and eventually scattered but they did not die (ie they were not wiped out if existence) how then could this Messiah represent them and in what sense were they buried with the rich (9a)?

Even Jewish religious tradition, recognises that certain passages point to a Jewish liberator of his people, whether they apply them to Cyrus, Isaiah himself or any other number or prophets, there is enough in the scripture to conclude certain "messianic" prophecies point forward to some coming chosen one ; Christians, the first of which were all of Jewish descent, happen to believe that one was Jesus of Nazareth.





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[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #21]

I feel sorry for you. Your translations have robbed you of the truth.


Oh...and your Isaiah quote.... It DOES NOT say HE received the stroke. It says THEY.....THEY were stricken. Church couldn't have that so they changed it to HE. They...they..it's about Israel. And if you read the chapters surrounding 53 you'll see Israel described as despised and stricken. And Isaiah even says over and over that the servant is Israel.

Where does Isaiah say in chapter 53 that the servant is Israel? It couldn't be because he said "no deception was found in his mouth," and the Scriptures say over and over that the nation of Israel was deceptive with the people, and they were violent, which the servant never is, as we can see from reading chapter 53.

Micah said of Israel:

"Her rich men are full of violence and her inhabitants speak lies; their tongue is deceitful in their mouth." (Micah 6:12)

There are MANY scriptures such as that to show that the nation of Israel was corrupt and in very much trouble with YHWH. Chapter 53 of Isaiah could not have been speaking about the nation. In fact, Isaiah says that the servant would be sacrificed for the ERRORS of the nation. You can see this in ANY translation of the Bible. JWs don't use just the NWT.

BTW, the verses do not say "they" were afflicted, it always says "he." Your translation needs a second look.