How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Purple Knight
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How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

This is not a question of whether or not evolution is crazy, but how crazy it seems at first glance.

That is, when we discard our experiences and look at claims as if through new eyes, what do we find when we look at evolution? I Believe we can find a great deal of common ground with this question, because when I discard my experience as an animal breeder, when I discard my knowledge, and what I've been taught, I might look at evolution with the same skepticism as someone who has either never been taught anything about it, or someone who has been taught to distrust it.

Personally my mind goes to the keratinised spines on the tongues of cats. Yes, cats have fingernails growing out of their tongues! Gross, right? Well, these particular fingernails have evolved into perfect little brushes for the animal's fur. But I think of that first animal with a horrid growth of keratin on its poor tongue. The poor thing didn't die immediately, and this fits perfectly with what I said about two steps back paying for one forward. This detrimental mutation didn't hurt the animal enough for the hapless thing to die of it, but surely it caused some suffering. And persevering thing that he was, he reproduced despite his disability (probably in a time of plenty that allowed that). But did he have the growths anywhere else? It isn't beyond reason to think of them protruding from the corners of his eyes or caking up more and more on the palms of his hands. Perhaps he had them where his eyelashes were, and it hurt him to even blink. As disturbing as my mental picture is of this scenario, this sad creature isn't even as bad off as this boar, whose tusks grew up and curled until they punctured his brain.

Image

Image

This is a perfect example of a detrimental trait being preserved because it doesn't hurt the animal enough to kill it before it mates. So we don't have to jump right from benefit to benefit. The road to a new beneficial trait might be long, going backwards most of the way, and filled with a lot of stabbed brains and eyelids.

Walking backwards most of the time, uphill both ways, and across caltrops almost the entire trip?

I have to admit, thinking about walking along such a path sounds like, at very least, a very depressing way to get from A to B. I would hope there would be a better way.

Sherlock Holmes

Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1011

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

The Barbarian wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:35 pm And as the OT was the result of tradition and consensus of believers, so too, is the NT.
And I continue to be stunned by those who don't know what the Bible is.
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:31 pm So, which particular Bible might you be referring to?
So now you do know what the Bible is. Good. I have three by my desk. A KJV, a Douay, and an Orthodox Study Bible. And I have access to many other editions on line. All of them seem to be equally valid as God's word. Some of them lack some books, others have more. Since all Bibles were compiled by men, using tradition, scholarship and prayer, I'm impressed that they are all so closely alike.

How about you?
So you don't know what the Bible is, you seem to only know what "a Bible" is, there are many Bible's it seems, are all of them equally "valid"? What about two Bibles that contain different text? are both texts "valid"? one? none? how would you determine this?

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1012

Post by The Barbarian »

The Barbarian wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:35 pm So now you do know what the Bible is. Good. I have three by my desk. A KJV, a Douay, and an Orthodox Study Bible. And I have access to many other editions on line. All of them seem to be equally valid as God's word. Some of them lack some books, others have more. Since all Bibles were compiled by men, using tradition, scholarship and prayer, I'm impressed that they are all so closely alike.

How about you?
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:46 am So you don't know what the Bible is, you seem to only know what "a Bible" is,
I bolded the article in my reply above. Perhaps what we have so far considered willful ignorance on your part is merely a problem with reading comprehension, or possibly a problem with English grammar. Read about it here:

What Are Articles?
Articles are words that define a noun as specific or unspecific. Consider the following examples:
After the long day, the cup of tea tasted particularly good.
By using the article the, we’ve shown that it was one specific day that was long and one specific cup of tea that tasted good.
After a long day, a cup of tea tastes particularly good.
By using the article a, we’ve created a general statement, implying that any cup of tea would taste good after any long day.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/articles/

Notice that by using the article "the" I've shown that it is one specific thing.
there are many Bible's it seems,
Well, that's where we don't agree.
What about two Bibles that contain different text?
Since they are translations from Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek, etc. It's not surprising that there are variations in specific translations. You think that invalidates the Bible? How so?

Sherlock Holmes

Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1013

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

The Barbarian wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:35 pm So now you do know what the Bible is. Good. I have three by my desk. A KJV, a Douay, and an Orthodox Study Bible. And I have access to many other editions on line. All of them seem to be equally valid as God's word. Some of them lack some books, others have more. Since all Bibles were compiled by men, using tradition, scholarship and prayer, I'm impressed that they are all so closely alike.

How about you?
Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:46 am So you don't know what the Bible is, you seem to only know what "a Bible" is,
I bolded the article in my reply above. Perhaps what we have so far considered willful ignorance on your part is merely a problem with reading comprehension, or possibly a problem with English grammar. Read about it here:

What Are Articles?
Articles are words that define a noun as specific or unspecific. Consider the following examples:
After the long day, the cup of tea tasted particularly good.
By using the article the, we’ve shown that it was one specific day that was long and one specific cup of tea that tasted good.
After a long day, a cup of tea tastes particularly good.
By using the article a, we’ve created a general statement, implying that any cup of tea would taste good after any long day.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/articles/

Notice that by using the article "the" I've shown that it is one specific thing.
there are many Bible's it seems,
Well, that's where we don't agree.
What about two Bibles that contain different text?
Since they are translations from Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek, etc. It's not surprising that there are variations in specific translations. You think that invalidates the Bible? How so?
No, I mean things like the veracity of Jesus saving the adulterous woman from stoning for example, is that scripture?

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1014

Post by JoeyKnothead »

We notice how the theist is much better prepared to fuss on what the Bible has to say, than fuss on the OP.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1015

Post by The Barbarian »

JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:52 pm We notice how the theist is much better prepared to fuss on what the Bible has to say, than fuss on the OP.
He seems a little conflicted about what he should believe that's in the Bible. So this theist thinks maybe we need to let him decide what he thinks, and move back to the OP. Sorry for the diversion. (Barbarian checks)

It seems that Sherlock was trying to find a way to explain how fossils, genetics, embryology, and so on, all point to the same common descent of living things on Earth. His best defense so far, is that there is a tiny, but real chance that all this data is wrong, because science isn't about deductive proofs.

Like there is a tiny, but real chance that all the oxygen molecules will move to one side of the room and suffocate someone. It's possible. But like the chances of all the evidence just randomly happening to fit, we can confidently say that it's not going to happen

Sherlock Holmes

Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1016

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

The Barbarian wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:36 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:52 pm We notice how the theist is much better prepared to fuss on what the Bible has to say, than fuss on the OP.
He seems a little conflicted about what he should believe that's in the Bible. So this theist thinks maybe we need to let him decide what he thinks, and move back to the OP. Sorry for the diversion. (Barbarian checks)

It seems that Sherlock was trying to find a way to explain how fossils, genetics, embryology, and so on, all point to the same common descent of living things on Earth. His best defense so far, is that there is a tiny, but real chance that all this data is wrong, because science isn't about deductive proofs.

Like there is a tiny, but real chance that all the oxygen molecules will move to one side of the room and suffocate someone. It's possible. But like the chances of all the evidence just randomly happening to fit, we can confidently say that it's not going to happen
No, I mean things like the veracity of Jesus saving the adulterous woman from stoning for example, is that scripture?

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1017

Post by JoeyKnothead »

The Barbarian wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 8:36 pm
JoeyKnothead wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:52 pm We notice how the theist is much better prepared to fuss on what the Bible has to say, than fuss on the OP.
He seems a little conflicted about what he should believe that's in the Bible. So this theist thinks maybe we need to let him decide what he thinks, and move back to the OP. Sorry for the diversion. (Barbarian checks)

It seems that Sherlock was trying to find a way to explain how fossils, genetics, embryology, and so on, all point to the same common descent of living things on Earth. His best defense so far, is that there is a tiny, but real chance that all this data is wrong, because science isn't about deductive proofs.

Like there is a tiny, but real chance that all the oxygen molecules will move to one side of the room and suffocate someone. It's possible. But like the chances of all the evidence just randomly happening to fit, we can confidently say that it's not going to happen
I call y'all wheelbarrow brains. Not that y'all're dumb as one, but need it to tote y'all around so much smarts your brain done swole it up big, either out of pride, or knowledge, or both. It ain't an insult. It ain't.

I'm gonna tell everyone I meet today that one of our best wheelbarrow brains commented on one of my posts.

And not to correct me!

First I'm gonna wake up the pretty thing, and tell her. She's gonna hear how I ain't gotta be corrected all the time. I won't mention your name, out of fear she'd come after you. I figure you're tough, but really, what man can endure a woman's fussing?

But yeah, if all the oxygen heads it off elsewhere, the brain's apt to suffer such a lack of it, "God did it" starts looking reasonable.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1018

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:20 pm No, I mean things like the veracity of Jesus saving the adulterous woman from stoning for example, is that scripture?
So, if Jesus said it, evolution ain't a thing?

And if he didn't, evolution is a thing?
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1019

Post by The Barbarian »

I call y'all wheelbarrow brains. Not that y'all're dumb as one, but need it to tote y'all around so much smarts your brain done swole it up big, either out of pride, or knowledge, or both. It ain't an insult. It ain't.
I'm very old. And I've found that all kinds of stuff I've picked up over the years has turned out to be useful, at least once. So there is that.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1020

Post by The Barbarian »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:42 am No, I mean things like the veracity of Jesus saving the adulterous woman from stoning for example, is that scripture?
Last time I checked. But then I'm wondering if you've figured out what the Bible is, yet. Back to the OP...

It seems that Sherlock was trying to find a way to explain how fossils, genetics, embryology, and so on, all point to the same common descent of living things on Earth. His best defense so far, is that there is a tiny, but real chance that all this data is wrong, because science isn't about deductive proofs.

Like there is a tiny, but real chance that all the oxygen molecules will move to one side of the room and suffocate someone. It's possible. But like the chances of all the evidence just randomly happening to fit, we can confidently say that it's not going to happen

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