God is using Russia to fulfill a prophecy

[nobspeople]

According to Pat Robinson (unfortunately there's no Grimm Reaper smilie available) Russia is being used by god to fulfill prophecy (who god can't do its own dirty work is another raging question, but it's not the first time we hear this from biblical 'know-it-alls' like patty).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pat-robertso ... 45780.html


Is this true?


It's worth noting, about good, ancient patty:
Robertson, who turns 92 this month, is a serial doomsday cheerleader: in the 1970s, he predicted a 1982 ending, the 1990s, he predicted a 2007 ending, 2020, he predicted Donald Trump would win reelection ― “without question” ― and it would lead to the end. (In that case, it wasn’t a war that would end the world, as he is currently predicting, but something a lot more natural, like an asteroid.)

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #55]

Biblical evidence in an of itself has to be regarded as low priority, especially if there is little to no extra-biblical evidence to support what the bible authors claimed.
I was not asking for biblical-based evidence. I am aware of those stories.

Ok, so lets see how this logic holds for other things that are generally accepted.

1. There is no extra-Egyptian evidence that King Tut existed outside of Egypt

2. Therefore, Egyptian-based evidence for the existence of King Tut has to be regarded as low priority.

See what I'm saying?

If you guys used the same logic and held the same standard for everything else in antiquity as you do with the Bible/Christianity...then there would be nothing left to believe., would it?

Now, I am going to sit here and wait for you to try and wiggle out of this obvious double-standard..

And while I wait, I will also ponder as to what extra-Biblical evidence you are looking for, that will satisfy you as it pertains to this specific case.

What kind of extra-Biblical evidence do you expect to find as it pertains to whether or not demons believe in Biblical prophecy??

Are you expecting the discovery of a cave in Tikrit, Iraq to have written on the walls..

"Demons in fact DO believe in Biblical prophecy" or something??

What are we talking about here? SMH.

[We_Are_VENOM]

your example

Matt 8:28-29

suggests that these "devils" thought that things could be done to them before the time of prophesy fulfilment had arrived.

Yeah, and it presupposes that they knew of the prophecy, doesn't it?

Which either tells us that they are not as knowledgeable about things as some Christians are claiming

It implies that they were knowledgeable about their impeding doom (according to prophecy concerning them).

That is the contention here.

, or that the story was invented - perhaps to present the biblical character of Jesus in a more credulous light.

Orrrr, that the story is true, which is that Jesus is the MAN and it simply is what it is.

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #55]

Biblical evidence in an of itself has to be regarded as low priority, especially if there is little to no extra-biblical evidence to support what the bible authors claimed.
I was not asking for biblical-based evidence. I am aware of those stories.

Ok, so lets see how this logic holds for other things that are generally accepted.

1. There is no extra-Egyptian evidence that King Tut existed outside of Egypt

Your analogy fails miserably. You are comparing written claims only found in a collection called the Bible versus an actual, physical tomb AND body that have been extensively studied by people from both inside and outside of Egypt.

https://www.history.com/news/king-tut-d ... 0diagnosis.

https://www.memphistours.com/Egypt/Wiki ... utankhamun

https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/ ... -discovery

The research was an international and interdisciplinary collaboration led by Zahi Hawass, secretary general of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, involving archeologists, medical scientists, and anthropologists from Egypt, Germany, and Italy. The study's findings were announced Tuesday and were published in the current issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

I'm guessing you didn't think that analogy through very well....

[William]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #62]

Yeah, and it presupposes that they knew of the prophecy, doesn't it?

Yes - which fits with JWs saying that the devil knows the details.

It implies that they were knowledgeable about their impeding doom (according to prophecy concerning them).

That is the contention here.

What prophecy are you referring to?

, or that the story was invented - perhaps to present the biblical character of Jesus in a more credulous light.

Orrrr, that the story is true, which is that Jesus is the MAN and it simply is what it is.

Yes. But this still does not help tell us why folk believe that devils know the details...

[We_Are_VENOM]

Your analogy fails miserably. You are comparing written claims only found in a collection called the Bible versus an actual, physical tomb AND body that have been extensively studied by people from both inside and outside of Egypt.

https://www.history.com/news/king-tut-d ... 0diagnosis.

https://www.memphistours.com/Egypt/Wiki ... utankhamun

https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/ ... -discovery

The research was an international and interdisciplinary collaboration led by Zahi Hawass, secretary general of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, involving archeologists, medical scientists, and anthropologists from Egypt, Germany, and Italy. The study's findings were announced Tuesday and were published in the current issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

I'm guessing you didn't think that analogy through very well....

Well first of all, I don't think I've made myself clear..

The analogy pertained to extra-Egyptian evidence of KING TUT OUTSIDE OF EGYPT.

I am talking about any extra-Egyptian source that identified that there in fact existed a young Pharaoh of Egypt named Tutankhamen.

So spare me all of the other nonsense and red herrings.

[We_Are_VENOM]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #62]

Yeah, and it presupposes that they knew of the prophecy, doesn't it?

Yes - which fits with JWs saying that the devil knows the details.

Yeah and that is the point, you may not accept what the Bible say as truth, but the least you can do is acknowledge the fact that they (demons) knew of a future event, an event that they believed would take place?

It all comes down to context and reading comprehension (not being facetious), correct?

What prophecy are you referring to?

The prophecy of their impeding doom. It is indeed a prophecy.

Yes. But this still does not help tell us why folk believe that devils know the details...

We are talking about within the framework of Christianity, according to the narrative.

We see that the demons were aware of their fate which would take place (according to them) at a future appointed time, and we find out later in the Bible that Satan and his demons will be thrown into the lake of fire, at an appointed time.

[JehovahsWitness]

Like many we have simply proposes explanations of existing prophecies found in scripture.

Yeah, but the problem is; even they are inaccurate.

We have never laid claim to infallibility, but as regard our interpretation of Daniel 11 under discussion, neither you nor anybody on this thread has presented any proof that our present understanding is incorrect.


JW

[William]

[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #66]

at an appointed time

Since the time is unknown to humans, it isn't really something that can be regarded as prophesy related to humans and even prophesy related to humans is open to interpretation which tells us that prophesy isn't very useful to humans, other than - as JW points out - being useful in terms of strengthening the faith of some...if indeed the interpretations turn out to be correct.

Nothing much in which to hang ones hat on, as far as I can tell.

It really amounts to promises made which cannot be said to have been fulfilled until the exact time such becomes a fact - like the promise of Jesus' return, which many have believed over the centuries, will happen eventually. [in some unknown 'appointed time']
But biblically speaking, faith is the evidence produced and since Jesus has yet to return, placing faith in a promise is different than having the actual evidence which would then produce faith, upon his return.

Which is what I was pointing out regarding the difference between modern day understanding of faith and what Hebrews 1 speaks of.

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #67]

We have never laid claim to infallibility, but as regard our interpretation of Daniel 11 under discussion, neither you nor anybody on this thread has presented any proof that our present understanding is incorrect.

From what I gather re your position on this matter, no proof can be presented either way until what is interpreted is shown to be either true or false - and if there are no claims made specific to times, places etc - the no proof needs to be provided.

In that, the practice of interpretation of supposed prophesy supposedly able to be used over and over again through the ages, is "meh".

[JehovahsWitness]

But biblically speaking, faith is the evidence produced ...

That is incorrect.

Biblically speaking faith is the expectation (in the heart if the believer) based on the present evidence of unseen realities.

HEBREW 11:1 -NWT

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen.

The "convincing evidence" (evident demonstration) is obviously not faith, since faith is biblically something posessed by believers (compare 2 These 3:2). The convincing evidence might be anything from a personal event to global catastrophe , but biblically a global catastrophe (such as a war is not "faith") since faith in God is a requirement to please Him. No, rather faith is being completely sure (assured expectations ) that the unseen God exists and will fulfill his promises (and demonstrating or acting in line with that assurance)

To illustrate: Jesus disciples had faith in him as the Son of God and believed in his Messiahship. Why? Not because they had witnessed his prehuman existence or the reality of his future (unseen) kingship. They believed or were assured by the things (miracles ) he did.

Now let us take one thing Jesus is reported to have done: Jesus cursed a fig tree and the next day it died. Was the dead fig tree (the demonstration) faith? Of course not it was a dead fig tree, it was neither faith nor did it possess faith. The dead tree constitute (not the faith ie. "the conviction", the feeling of being "sure" "the expectation") the dead tree became part of the demonstrated evidence they (they disciples) needed to believe in/ be convincdd of that which was invisible.