How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Purple Knight
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How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1

Post by Purple Knight »

This is not a question of whether or not evolution is crazy, but how crazy it seems at first glance.

That is, when we discard our experiences and look at claims as if through new eyes, what do we find when we look at evolution? I Believe we can find a great deal of common ground with this question, because when I discard my experience as an animal breeder, when I discard my knowledge, and what I've been taught, I might look at evolution with the same skepticism as someone who has either never been taught anything about it, or someone who has been taught to distrust it.

Personally my mind goes to the keratinised spines on the tongues of cats. Yes, cats have fingernails growing out of their tongues! Gross, right? Well, these particular fingernails have evolved into perfect little brushes for the animal's fur. But I think of that first animal with a horrid growth of keratin on its poor tongue. The poor thing didn't die immediately, and this fits perfectly with what I said about two steps back paying for one forward. This detrimental mutation didn't hurt the animal enough for the hapless thing to die of it, but surely it caused some suffering. And persevering thing that he was, he reproduced despite his disability (probably in a time of plenty that allowed that). But did he have the growths anywhere else? It isn't beyond reason to think of them protruding from the corners of his eyes or caking up more and more on the palms of his hands. Perhaps he had them where his eyelashes were, and it hurt him to even blink. As disturbing as my mental picture is of this scenario, this sad creature isn't even as bad off as this boar, whose tusks grew up and curled until they punctured his brain.

Image

Image

This is a perfect example of a detrimental trait being preserved because it doesn't hurt the animal enough to kill it before it mates. So we don't have to jump right from benefit to benefit. The road to a new beneficial trait might be long, going backwards most of the way, and filled with a lot of stabbed brains and eyelids.

Walking backwards most of the time, uphill both ways, and across caltrops almost the entire trip?

I have to admit, thinking about walking along such a path sounds like, at very least, a very depressing way to get from A to B. I would hope there would be a better way.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1151

Post by Jose Fly »

Eloi wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:37 pm It is too obvious that we humans are totally different from any animal that exists
Nope, I showed you some of the science that indicates we share a common ancestry with other primates but you ignored it. But then, this isn't really a matter of science for you, is it?
because we are much more than a body that reproduces. In fact, we share 50% of our DNA with bananas. Are we 50% bananas?
You're missing the larger context. We share ~98% of our DNA with chimps, ~96% with gorillas, a bit less with other primates, less with other mammals, less with fish, less with plants, and so on. So from a broader perspective, the relative amount of shared genetics reflects relative relatedness (IOW we are closer to chimps than gorillas, closer to gorillas than mammals, closer to mammals than fish, closer to fish than plants, etc.)
Is it enough for all the time of existence that is calculated for the material Universe so that, for example, thousands of different flowers came out from a single specie? And then how will it be possible to make a modern human being emerge from some animal?

And if we go further, how long does it take for life to emerge out of inorganic material? Too much time...which evolutionist don't count on in the first place. They are just fairytales.
Your empty assertions are noted.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1152

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Eloi in post #1152]
If there is that "evidence" why not all scientists are convinced of it?
The huge majority are ... which is why it has elevated to a formal scientific theory and remains so for the very reason that it is supported by observations over some 150+ years. The minority who challenge it or refuse to believe it have so far not been able to mount any attacks that show it to be wrong. Until then, it is the best we've got within the world of science.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1153

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #1147]

The point I was making is the choice as to kind of definition is arbitrary, one can choose to use the taxonomic definition or not, I never meant to imply the taxonomic definition itself was arbitrarily established, only one's adoption of it as "the" definition.

Taxonomically I accept there are many physical similarities but as I pointed out there are also huge, vast differences that I think differentiate us from "apes" from "animals" so for that reason don't favor a definition based on taxonomy.

Which brings us to another difference - only humans devise taxonomies.
Last edited by Sherlock Holmes on Thu May 19, 2022 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1154

Post by Clownboat »

Eloi wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 1:32 pm I do not believe that evolution is a scientific fact, because no one has ever demonstrated it in the way that scientific theories must be demonstrated... I am even amazed that it is considered a "scientific theory" of those that peer-reviewers accept... However, if it were a reality, someone saying "people are apes" is much closer to what this theory proposes than what a forum member answered me before here in the forum; He posted "we are animals" (I don't know who he means by "we", but I read it as "they, including him, consider themselves animals"). Isn't it closer to the theory to consider yourself (evolutionists) apes rather than animals in general?
What mechanism do you propose better explains all the animals we see not just now, but also in the fossil record? I would like to compare your mechanism against the Theory of Evolution.

Thank you.
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1155

Post by Clownboat »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:42 pm
Eloi wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:37 pm It is too obvious that we humans are totally different from any animal that exists, because we are much more than a body that reproduces. In fact, we share 50% of our DNA with bananas. Are we 50% bananas?

Is it enough for all the time of existence that is calculated for the material Universe so that, for example, thousands of different flowers came out from a single specie? And then how will it be possible to make a modern human being emerge from some animal?

And if we go further, how long does it take for life to emerge out of inorganic material? Too much time...which evolutionist don't count on in the first place. They are just fairytales.
These are fine questions, far too often treated as mere routine.

I've always been taken by the fact that human civilization seems to have just popped up in a few thousand years too, so much achieved in only the recent past.

Like writing for example, oldest examples we have are like less than 6,000 years ago, odd, very odd, I'd have expected this to have developed and have evidence going back much farther.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/us/m ... %20drought.
Human Skull About 8,000 Years Old Is Found in Minnesota River

Minnesota has three other remains from that time period that have been studied, she said, adding that it is rare for Native American tribes in the state to allow the bones of their ancestors to be examined for archaeological purposes.

The F.B.I. anthropologist had examined a depression on the skull and determined that the man had sustained a severe head wound, which Sheriff Hable said was evidence of “blunt force trauma.” It’s unclear if that is how the young man died.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU

It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco

If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1156

Post by Sherlock Holmes »

[Replying to Clownboat in post #1155]

Does any of that have anything to do with writing?

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1157

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #2]
I was not talking to you ... and I don't think I want to have a dialog with someone who is questioning what I say, what I am doing here, or questioning the value of my way of reasoning. I talk to whoever I do want and I won't with who I don't. I am sure you'll appreciate my honesty.
Good bye.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1158

Post by Jose Fly »

Eloi wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:51 pm No one can determine the origin of things just by looking at the final product and comparing it to other existing objects.
Again, things are not so just because you say they are. And again, you're not engaging in discussion, you're just preaching.
I could say that many living beings and plants share certain characteristics because their designer was one, the same.
Is that really what you think evolutionary biology is? Just some people merely saying things and nothing else? Did you even look at the paper I provided you?
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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1159

Post by Eloi »

Clownboat wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:57 pm (...) What mechanism do you propose better explains all the animals we see not just now, but also in the fossil record? I would like to compare your mechanism against the Theory of Evolution.

Thank you.
There is no fossil record verifying evolution. There are no links between species ... Species that are supposed to be later appear together with species that are supposed to be earlier, all in the same geological layers.

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Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Post #1160

Post by Jose Fly »

Sherlock Holmes wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:57 pm The point I was making is the choice as to kind of definition is arbitrary, one can choose to use the taxonomic definition or not, I never meant to imply the taxonomic definition itself was arbitrarily established, only one's adoption of it as "the" definition.

Taxonomically I accept there are many physical similarities but as I pointed out there are also huge, vast differences that I think differentiate us from "apes" from "animals" so for that reason don't favor a definition based on taxonomy.

Which brings us to another difference - only humans devise taxonomies.
So basically you reject taxonomy as a means of classification?
Being apathetic is great....or not. I don't really care.

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