Alright, Jehovah Exists - Why Worship Him?

[Purple Knight]

Let's assume the God of the Bible exists. Taking aside that he has named himself God, why is he God?

What makes an entity God?

And if this entity exists, why worship him?

[Purple Knight]

Is love selfless?

Biblically agap (godly) love is. According to the bible, this kind of love is however a fruitage of the spirit and incomprehensible to the infidel.

I do a generally decent job at comprehending the incomprehensible.

At first glance, I would say that loving everyone is nonsense, because your loved ones are the ones you care about the most, and you can't care about everyone the most.

However, there may be a meaning to be found here that isn't nonsense. You might love your child, and what that means is that you take pains for him. You care for him. You make sure he understands the material when he has homework. Essentially, you make sacrifices. So, I would say, loving everyone just means putting yourself last, and being willing to give anything for anyone. Is that fairly accurate?

Additionally, I can closely mirror loving people who are particularly nasty to me by conceptualising that they do so because they are better than me and thus they deserve my respect, admiration, and selfless giving. While it might not be the same feeling internally, it performs as agap love.

You never answered me before about some of us potentially being the children of Satan. If so, we still have free will, correct? And we can choose to eschew our nature and be righteous instead, can't we? And because we can, doesn't that make us moral agents and in fact, generate the obligation to do so?

[Purple Knight]

The Hebrew Word "God" means "powerful one" ; if there is an omnipotent creator, He is God by definition of his omnipotence. Its like calling a black cat a black cat ... if its black and its a cat then it become less an appellation so much as a statement of fact.

So if Lucifer was omnipotent and created the universe instead, you'd worship him instead?

The Creator of life has the right to be worshipped as such; if he proved to be despicable but left us a choice then I'd refrain. If He left us no choice.... the question is redundant.

You know you do have a choice though, don't you? You know you're a moral agent and you know you have free will in the sense that you are unlike a moth who can only bash itself into the light bulb time after time because that is its nature. But you are different. You can go against your nature, can't you?

So if you were created with an evil nature, to worship an evil god, even if that god created the universe, even if it was so powerful that it could define its despicable actions as good, you could go against it.

[JehovahsWitness]

Is love selfless?

Biblically agap (godly) love is. According to the bible, this kind of love is however a fruitage of the spirit and incomprehensible to the infidel.

I do a generally decent job at comprehending the incomprehensible.

At first glance, I would say that loving everyone is nonsense, because your loved ones are the ones you care about the most, and you can't care about everyone the most.

However, there may be a meaning to be found here that isn't nonsense. You might love your child, and what that means is that you take pains for him. You care for him. You make sure he understands the material when he has homework. Essentially, you make sacrifices. So, I would say, loving everyone just means putting yourself last, and being willing to give anything for anyone. Is that fairly accurate?

No not really, but as I said ...

[JehovahsWitness]

You never answered me before about some of us potentially being the children of Satan. If so, we still have free will, correct? And we can choose to eschew our nature and be righteous instead, can't we? And because we can, doesn't that make us moral agents and in fact, generate the obligation to do so?

I dont recall the context of this question but I believe all humans are free moral agents.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Creator of life has the right to be worshipped as such; if he proved to be despicable but left us a choice then I'd refrain. If He left us no choice.... the question is redundant.

...
So if you were created with an evil nature, to worship an evil god, even if that god created the universe, even if it was so powerful that it could define its despicable actions as good, you could go against it.
[/quote]

... if I were created evil I would see nothing wrong in evil and would not want to go against an evil God. If Iwere created evil and saw something good I would surely hate it and struggle against it. If an evil God created something evil it could, to all intent and purposes, only do evil.


JW

[Purple Knight]

... if I were created evil I would see nothing wrong in evil and would not want to go against an evil God.

But you're a free moral agent in this scenario. You might initially see nothing wrong with something, but if you're a curious and intelligent person, you might find out that there is something wrong with it. And then it's up to you what you do about it. You can choose to do right. Therefore you should. Do you see any flaw in this reasoning?

[JehovahsWitness]

... if I were created evil I would see nothing wrong in evil and would not want to go against an evil God.

But you're a free moral agent in this scenario. You might initially see nothing wrong with something, but if you're a curious and intelligent person, you might find out that there is something wrong with it. And then it's up to you what you do about it. You can choose to do right. Therefore you should. Do you see any flaw in this reasoning?

No I disagree; evil isnt an intellectual eventuality it is a moral condition. An evil man isnt evil until he finds an alternative he is evil despite knowing the alternative. As long as one is a free moral agent one could choose to'do good but an evil person NEVER will.

[Purple Knight]

You might initially see nothing wrong with something, but if you're a curious and intelligent person, you might find out that there is something wrong with it. And then it's up to you what you do about it. You can choose to do right. Therefore you should. Do you see any flaw in this reasoning?

No I disagree; evil isnt an intellectual eventuality it is a moral condition. An evil man isnt evil until he finds an alternative he is evil despite knowing the alternative. As long as one is a free moral agent one could choose to'do good but an evil person NEVER will.

So do I have it right now?: A person who does some immoral act isn't necessarily evil; he must not only know what he is doing is wrong and do it anyway - he must also know what the righteous and good thing would be and simply choose not to do it?

[JehovahsWitness]

So do I have it right now?: A person who does some immoral act isn't necessarily evil; he must not only know what he is doing is wrong and do it anyway - he must also know what the righteous and good thing would be and simply choose not to do it?

Yes. If evil is the total lack of good, no matter what the circumstance, an evil person will chose to do bad because he LOVES what is wicked.

Why does God allow evil and suffering?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... suffering/

What will Jesus do to the wicked when hhe returns?
viewtopic.php?p=944434#p944434

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Can wicked people change?
viewtopic.php?p=1087167#p1087167

[Purple Knight]

Yes. If evil is the total lack of good, no matter what the circumstance, an evil person will chose to do bad because he LOVES what is wicked.

But motive counts, yes? For example, I might find a racist willing to dive on the Stauffenberg bomb that almost killed Hitler. Still evil, right? If so, what the evil person cannot do is choose good in his heart. Out in reality he might do anything as long as the motive was wickedness.