Bible is on no account an objective book !!!

[The Nice Centurion]

If bible was written / inspired by a god, it cant be more objective than a book Doctor Doom would write about his achievements.
And bibles references to Satan can be no more objective than Doc Dooms references to Reed Richards would be.

If bible is written by Jewish humans, it can be no more objective than a book about Doctor Doom written by Latverian people would be.

Lets talk about that. Am I right, or am I wrong?

If the latter, why?

[Miles]

Considering the depraved and ugly picture the Bible paints of god; his obsession with sex and killing innocent people, to name two examples, he would have to be a psychologically adrift to admit he wrote such things yest still expect to be worshiped, venerated, and loved. So I cast my vote for the Bible being concocted and written by Hebrews and Greeks---no god involved whatsoever.

.

I disagree, the bible paints a picure of a loving and generous God that act with kindness and wisdom.

Then what do you make of god's rather brutal response to relatively minor, in not asinine infractions?

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Kill the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB

Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Stop Earthly Sexual thoughts
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5 ESV)

Forbidden Acts Keep One From Heaven
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV)

God's Turns Nudity Into Shame
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (Genesis 2:25)
He answered, “I heard you in the garden. I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.”(Genesis 3:10)
source

All in all god seems to delight in punishing people, often outright killing them, and for rather stupid, if not insignificant, reasons. So, a loving god? Hardly. In fact the God of Abraham comes across as a rather paranoid, autocratic bully. Not unlike Donald Trump in many respects.




.

.

[JehovahsWitness]

All in all god seems to delight in punishing people, often outright killing them ....

I have seen nothing in the scriptures that implies that.


DOES GOD DELIGHT IN KILLING PEOPLE?

EZEKIEL Chapter 33 Verse 11

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.

RELATED POSTS

Is KILLING compatible with LOVE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 39#p952839

Is God more "killer" than kind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p959154

Does God delight in killing people?
viewtopic.php?p=1085955#p1085955

[Miles]

Considering the depraved and ugly picture the Bible paints of god; his obsession with sex and killing innocent people, to name two examples, he would have to be a psychologically adrift to admit he wrote such things yest still expect to be worshiped, venerated, and loved. So I cast my vote for the Bible being concocted and written by Hebrews and Greeks---no god involved whatsoever.

.

I disagree, the bible paints a picure of a loving and generous God that act with kindness and wisdom.


JW

Thanks be to both of thee for contributing, but thou avoided my question for debate like a hot lron (Mask of Doom) !

I thought I answered well enough in post #2 when I said "So I cast my vote for the Bible being concocted and written by Hebrews and Greeks---god is out of the picture."

.

[JehovahsWitness]

All in all god [punishes or kills] for rather stupid, if not insignificant, reasons.

I disagree. God seems always have good reason if he punishes. His actions are always depicted as restrained and justified. So, a loving god? Absolutely. In fact the God of Abraham comes across as a loving and wise Father that wants the very best for his creation.

[Miles]

Considering the depraved and ugly picture the Bible paints of god; his obsession with sex and killing innocent people, to cite two examples, he would have to be a psychologically adrift to admit he wrote such things yest still expect to be worshiped, venerated, and loved.

What then are the church ministers, who say a god wrote such things yet still expect their congregation to worship, venerate, and love him ?

They're cherry pickers who conveniently ignore all the verses that show god to be a rather paranoid, autocratic bully, which is hardly an unusual tactic, but quite common among the ministry and lay apologists.

.

[Miles]

All in all god [punishes or kills] for rather stupid, if not insignificant, reasons.

I disagree. God seems always have good reason if he punishes.

Good reasons such as death for cursing one's parent or death for happening to be a nonbeliever I imagine.

His actions are always depicted as restrained and justified.

What's so restrained and justified about killing a man who lies with a male as with a women? Two people who may well love one another are killed for no better reason than they're the same sex. What is so restrained about this? And what do you see as the justification for it. Not "reason," but justification.

So, a loving god? Absolutely. In fact the God of Abraham comes across as a loving and wise Father that wants the very best for his creation.

Only if one uses a good felt tipped pen


...........................



.

[TRANSPONDER]

Considering the depraved and ugly picture the Bible paints of god; his obsession with sex and killing innocent people, to name two examples, he would have to be a psychologically adrift to admit he wrote such things yest still expect to be worshiped, venerated, and loved. So I cast my vote for the Bible being concocted and written by Hebrews and Greeks---no god involved whatsoever.

.

I disagree, the bible paints a picure of a loving and generous God that act with kindness and wisdom.

Then what do you make of god's rather brutal response to relatively minor, in not asinine infractions?

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.’ (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Kill Brats
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

Kill the Curious
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and’ fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB

Kill Men, Women, and Children
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

---------------------------------------------------------------

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Stop Earthly Sexual thoughts
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (Colossians 3:5 ESV)

Forbidden Acts Keep One From Heaven
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV)

God's Turns Nudity Into Shame
And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. (Genesis 2:25)
He answered, “I heard you in the garden. I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.”(Genesis 3:10)
source

All in all god seems to delight in punishing people, often outright killing them, and for rather stupid, if not insignificant, reasons. So, a loving god? Hardly. In fact the God of Abraham comes across as a rather paranoid, autocratic bully. Not unlike Donald Trump in many respects.




.

.

I can't wait to see the response to this.

cue Excuses (it's all Man't fault)
evasion, (it good because the plan is good)
brutality (God can do as he likes)

any others? Denial? (No you don't Understand)

Here we go:

All in all god seems to delight in punishing people, often outright killing them ....

I have seen nothing in the scriptures that implies that.


DOES GOD DELIGHT IN KILLING PEOPLE?

EZEKIEL Chapter 33 Verse 11

Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.

RELATED POSTS

Is KILLING compatible with LOVE?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 39#p952839

Is God more "killer" than kind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p959154

Does God delight in killing people?
viewtopic.php?p=1085955#p1085955

There we are 'It's all Man's Fault'. God wrings His Invisible hands in anguish as he order,s approves and commits disgusting and vile acts of evil but he is forced to because of what humans do.

I do not believe you. I do not buy the excuse that God plunged His hands into acts of genocide, criminality and horrific evil with regret. The truth is that we are not created in God's image (with all His faults, apparently) but God was created in Our image and a violent, barbaric and violent image it was, too. And despite Greek thought trying to buff it up a bit, hasn't really improved. Scratch a meek and mild True believer and find someone who considers that God's Will is that we should bomb America's enemies flat, sooner rather than later. (Ok I know that the JW's make a fetish of pacifism).

[1213]

...
Why do you think bible god to be objective ?

And what in the bible has an objective narrative ?

Bible shows both sides in my opinion. It for example tells how Jews did wrong things and what was the result. It does not tell only the good side of the matter. That is why I think Bible and also God is objective.

[JehovahsWitness]

All in all god [punishes or kills] for rather stupid, if not insignificant, reasons.

I disagree. God seems always have good reason if he punishes.

Good reasons such as death for cursing one's parent ...

Yes exactly!

... or death for happening to be a nonbeliever I imagine.

I know of no law that mandated death for disbelief.




JW

[JehovahsWitness]

What's so restrained and justified about killing a man who lies with a male as with a women?

Biblically , God tolerated such behaviour for thousands of years without wiping people who practiced such things off the face of the planet entirely and then went on to provide his law to teach people right from wrong. According to the bible He still tolerated such behaviours from the pagan nations around his people.

All this shows great retraint on His part.

ACTS 17:30 NIV

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent

So, a loving god? Absolutely. In fact the God of Abraham comes across as a loving and wise Father that wants the very best for his creation.

Only if one uses a good felt tipped pen

I disagree ; one does not have to ignore any passages of scripture to conclude the God of Abraham is loving and wise because neither love nor wisdom require the infinite tolerance of that which is harmful and/or unnatural.

WHY does God prohibit homosexual acts?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 94#p994394