Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

[Tcg]

.
I recently heard this definition of atheism:

"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."

I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

.
I recently heard this definition of atheism:

"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists."

I think it is clearer than the one I usually espouse which is that atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. The only issue I have with is its singular nature. Perhaps, Atheism is the condition of not believing that any gods or deities exist, would be better.

Is this a good definition?


Tcg

I've got no problem with it.

However, I must point out that there is a subtle but important distinction between "not believing that a God or deity exists," and "believing that a God or deity does NOT exist."

Not believing something means that one is open to that thing. I do not believe there is a cat on my front doorstep, but that's not the same thing as me saying that I believe that a cat is NOT sitting on my doorstep.

Yes, that is an important distinction. One that some, and perhaps purposefully so, overlook.


Tcg

Yes. It is an apologetic basic in making atheism a positive assertion of claiming a god does not exist rather than not being convinced that it does. This is vital in the Theist apologetic armory because the burden of proof would shift to atheism and Theism is then in the easy position of winning by just dismissing all the atheist arguments, whereas agnostic -based non belief puts the burden of making their case for persuasion on the Theists, and they really hate that.

[oldbadger]

I think lifetimers and ex-theists, under the banner of atheism, are either consciously or subconsciously sitting on the fence about God.
The subconscious ones are, because they probably haven't considered God one way or another, for whatever reasons ( babies etc,),
as from Gods pov : if you are not against God then you are with God.

Most of the above might be Agnostics?
As for your 'not against God then you are with God', I just need to know which God, please?

And the conscious ones are being held there by God, or at least they might humble themselves as being curious.
However, as a christian I feel that once you reach out to Jesus, even if you let go , he won't.
Because what else would keep one on the fence.(God)
Keeping one on the fence can't be coming from the other side, because there is nothing there.

So maybe 'Atheism' is just the curious human in regards to the supernatural.

Ah...... I'm a deist and believe that although everything all together makes one whole deity, it is quite unaware of us.
The resident Ruler here in this universe is Mother Nature..... she rules you and me absolutely and we all stoop down to her mostly every day, following her every command. You live under the thumb of Mother Nature, I think.

[Tcg]

The next has legs. arguably, logically, there would be no belief in religion and other 'claptrap' unless it is taught. That is certainly the position I take on atheism - that it is the default in babies until they are taught religion.

I think that is true and that babies aren't born believing in gods. If it is true that there are no gods (not making that claim) then unless it was developed before us, there was a time that humans developed gods. We went from a state where no one believed in gods to a state were some of us did.

I'd love to know what that first spark was. Maybe during a long-standing drought, Nokk accidently left his walking stick out one night and it rained the next morning. Have that coincidence occur a few more times and we have the first god - "Nokkstick."


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

The next has legs. arguably, logically, there would be no belief in religion and other 'claptrap' unless it is taught. That is certainly the position I take on atheism - that it is the default in babies until they are taught religion.

I think that is true and that babies aren't born believing in gods. If it is true that there are no gods (not making that claim) then unless it was developed before us, there was a time that humans developed gods. We went from a state where no one believed in gods to a state were some of us did.

I'd love to know what that first spark was. Maybe during a long-standing drought, Nokk accidently left his walking stick out one night and it rained the next morning. Have that coincidence occur a few more times and we have the first god - "Nokkstick."


Tcg

Yes, indeed. This is something that interests me, since the origins of morality and society are to be traced back to animal pack instinct becoming communities wider than just the pack, which...I was going to say was unusual in animals, but I can think of so many examples, hives, herds and schools of fish that perhaps it's more common than not. But humans can think about this stuff which is uncommon.

I can track religion down to a number of instinctive traits - curiosity, story - telling, the need for authority. The need to invent religion isn't actually too hard to guess. What I am more interested in is the instinct behind music and art. Dance is not hard - communication (hunting dances, war dances, mating dances) and literature is a no - brainer. draw pictures, number with dots. One can see the evolution of writing as plain as the evolution of life - forms.

[William]

[TRANSPONDER]

Incorrect. Not accepting the case, evidence or argument for something does not mean that opposition must be assumed. Why should that even be considered when 'no god -belief; is easy to understand and logically more correct?

I reckon I know why you suggest it; it wishes a well poisoning bias -position on atheism.

[William]

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to William in post #207]

I would rather say that accurate and valid definitions (as opposed to common usage, which is what we find in dictionaries) is best approached as logical definitions of human ideas. The humans themselves (not always being logical) don't in themselves provide the definition.

What was the point of your statement? Whether it was correct or not, what does it contribute to the discussion? We have a perfectly good definition, already. And where is that list you said you were going to post?

[William]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #208]

There have been a few definitions offered in this thread - some being tweaked but as yet there has been no consensus definition agree upon.

As to the list I promised, I did offer four expressions atheist have used and you commented at least on three of them, based upon your particular definition of atheism.

For my part, I am simply feeding back from the definitions already offered, to see if it might help me understand exactly what atheism is, and all have been either ignored or have received the thumbs down.

My interest has naturally waned as a result, so I see no point in offering more lists of things because that failed to garner any clearer understanding anyway.

My current position on the matter is that it doesn't.

My suspicion is;



And I have no horse in this race [no interest in this subject] anymore.

[Tcg]

The next has legs. arguably, logically, there would be no belief in religion and other 'claptrap' unless it is taught. That is certainly the position I take on atheism - that it is the default in babies until they are taught religion.

I think that is true and that babies aren't born believing in gods. If it is true that there are no gods (not making that claim) then unless it was developed before us, there was a time that humans developed gods. We went from a state where no one believed in gods to a state were some of us did.

I'd love to know what that first spark was. Maybe during a long-standing drought, Nokk accidently left his walking stick out one night and it rained the next morning. Have that coincidence occur a few more times and we have the first god - "Nokkstick."


Tcg

Yes, indeed. This is something that interests me, since the origins of morality and society are to be traced back to animal pack instinct becoming communities wider than just the pack, which...I was going to say was unusual in animals, but I can think of so many examples, hives, herds and schools of fish that perhaps it's more common than not. But humans can think about this stuff which is uncommon.

I can track religion down to a number of instinctive traits - curiosity, story - telling, the need for authority. The need to invent religion isn't actually too hard to guess. What I am more interested in is the instinct behind music and art. Dance is not hard - communication (hunting dances, war dances, mating dances) and literature is a no - brainer. draw pictures, number with dots. One can see the evolution of writing as plain as the evolution of life - forms.

Yes, the evolution of music is interesting to ponder. It might have started as simply as the rhythm created by banging sticks in specific patterns. I could imagine the varied pitches our voices can make as being used to repeat something pleasant someone stumbled upon. Combining the two had to be a rather large advancement at least in its complexity. Looks like everything goes back to sticks. gods, music, and who knows what else. Where would humans be without them? [/sarcasm]

Getting back to the development of Nokkstick. If there were a time when no humans believed and then that changed and some began to, that would be the genesis of atheism at least as I understand it. Most of those atheists would have done absolutely nothing to become one. Maybe Nokk's brother knew of Nokksitck but wasn't convinced, but most would have no concept of this development and especially not at first. They'd still lack belief in Nokkstick though.

I recently saw a listing for a discussion titled, "The History of Atheism." I didn't watch it, but as far as I am concerned it goes back to that moment when humans first began to believe in gods. And no one, except maybe Nokk's brother stated, "There are no gods!"

ETA: Oh, and getting back to music, I wonder if some primitive form of it existed before language. I bet it did and who knows, might have played a part in the development of language.


Tcg