Why the confusion?

[Tcg]

.

Here are the different English spellings I've seen for the title God:

- God

- GOD

- god

- G-d

Here are some of the proposals for the name of Biblegod:

- Yahweh

- Jehovah

- Yashua

- YHWH

We can turn to the Bible for help but in the first two chapters of Genesis we find two options:

- Elohim

- Yahweh Elohim

The Bible of course uses many other names for its God. One site I found listed 16. Once we look beyond Judaism and Christianity, we find an absurd number of gods and titles/names for them.

I've seen the claim that atheists are confused about the meaning of "God." I'd suggest the confusion doesn't lie with atheists but rather theists.

Why is there so much confusion?


Tcg

[JoeyKnothead]

Thanks!

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. In case you're being ironic, Bob Marley sang this song as a genuine Rastafarian religious spiritual. Jah live! is Marley's faithful testimony to the living incarnation of Jah, Haile Selassie, sung to affirm Marley's belief that reports of Selassie's death were false.

Totally cereal. Always liked the song, but didn't know Jah meant God.

[Tcg]

Thanks!

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. In case you're being ironic, Bob Marley sang this song as a genuine Rastafarian religious spiritual. Jah live! is Marley's faithful testimony to the living incarnation of Jah, Haile Selassie, sung to affirm Marley's belief that reports of Selassie's death were false.

Totally cereal. Always liked the song, but didn't know Jah meant God.

When I recently searched to find the most "narrow gate", Rastafari was a strong contender. It has somewhere around one million followers. In the big scheme of things, that's pretty narrow. Of course, if I wanted, I could invent my own god and not tell anyone about it. I suspect there are a bunch of folks that could tie me, but none could beat me.

ETA: Here's a tune that refers to Haile Selassie. I'm not really sure what the song means, but it makes me wonder why there aren't like a billion Rastafari. A drummer friend of mine was impressed by the polyrhythms in use. Having grown up Sothern Baptist, I have trouble catching one rhythm.




Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

.

Here are the different English spellings I've seen for the title God:

- God

- GOD

- god

- G-d

Here are some of the proposals for the name of Biblegod:

- Yahweh

- Jehovah

- Yashua

- YHWH

We can turn to the Bible for help but in the first two chapters of Genesis we find two options:

- Elohim

- Yahweh Elohim

The Bible of course uses many other names for its God. One site I found listed 16. Once we look beyond Judaism and Christianity, we find an absurd number of gods and titles/names for them.

I've seen the claim that atheists are confused about the meaning of "God." I'd suggest the confusion doesn't lie with atheists but rather theists.

Why is there so much confusion?


Tcg

I suspect there are two reasons - one is that '"god" (or god) can mean a number of different things. The responsibility rests on the god - claimant to explain why they are using the term that way and what it means, in their view.

The other one - 'various names of 'god' - is a phenomenon that has been noted in dogmatic cults before. Though I don't know what it's called It's a leap -frogging of the previous faith/Dogmatic shibboleth to virtue -signal and to step on the faces of the others as you climb the street - cred ladder.

Religions and Dogmas such as Communism do the same; each position is superseded by a more extreme and fanatical one and they use some particular Thinggg that the others failed to get right. This is the "right" version of the Dogma. So one has to proclaim that Yahweh or Jesus has to be written, spelt or pronounced in a particular way, and only those who do it that way are doing it right.

Of course it's a valid point that no - one was called 'Jesus' back in 1st c Judea. It was Joshua, pronounced Yeshua or something. Fair enough, but to make a religious doctrine of it is merely personal virtue -signalling.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
Fair enough, but to make a religious doctrine of it is merely personal virtue -signalling.

Let's put that statement into a context all its own, and note...

Best I can tell, a large component of religion is virtue signaling.
"Look at me, I'm piouser'n you, cause I do me this."

If you wanna show me commitment to your faith, quit voting for folks who make a mockery of their own.

[TRANSPONDER]

Mmm...but it is terribly tempting to be convinced by those who make a particular or unusual aspect of a dogma, fad or cult, like the Right way to pronounce the name of God, or which Bible translation to be used, or what "Aeon" means and how to spell it, and wag these around as the only sub sect that got it right and They belong to that exclusive elite. Can be very persuasive.

[Tcg]

Peace to you,

.

Here are the different English spellings I've seen for the title God:

- God

- GOD

- god

- G-d

- Mom

- Mum

- mama

- Ma

- Mother

(I'm not comparing a mom to God; just making a point with one of the titles that I know and hold)

Here are some of the proposals for the name of Biblegod:

- Yahweh

- Jehovah

- Yashua

- YHWH

There is confusion here for a few reasons I suppose: because the name of God - in what is written - has no vowels, and because Israel made it a practice not to same the name of God, and so the pronunciation got 'lost'. There is confusion because some people claim on their own authority what is or is not 'acceptable', and people listen to them. There is confusion because many/most people walk by sight, rather than by faith... and we don't have the full name written down for people to see, except "YHWH" (I don't think there is confusion about that, only about how to fill it in).

Although, we do actually have the name of God in what is written for anyone to see:

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:4

This is also shown in the praise: Hallelu JAH...

We can turn to the Bible for help but in the first two chapters of Genesis we find two options:

- Elohim

- Yahweh Elohim

The first is a title/description for the word 'god'. See here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... v/wlc/0-1/

The second is the name of God written along with the title/description.

The Bible of course uses many other names for its God. One site I found listed 16.

I assume you are referring to descriptions/titles, so in keeping with the mom analogy:

First aid giver

Short order cook

Housekeeper

Wife

nurturer

boo-boo kisser

taxi driver

birthday party planner

lecturer

woman



Peace again to you!

(edited to add in a link for supporting evidence)

Peace to you, tam.

Thanks for the response. Lots of good info here. I wasn't aware of the Psalm 68:4 passage, although the Names of God (NOG) versions lists the name as Yah not Jah. A minor difference to be sure, but I wonder if it's just the first half of Yahweh.

A problem which remains is the switch from Elohim to Yahweh Elohim right in the middle of Genesis 2 starting at verse 4 if I remember right. We have discussed this in another thread, and I reached the conclusion that it wasn't a sign of two different Gods, but rather a result of the evolution of thought concerning the Genesis God with a new author beginning at verse 4 or perhaps the result of two different source materials used by the author/s.

The last note is concerning the 16 names of God I mentioned. That refers to this source:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/the- ... f-god.html

Of, course I think it is actually a mixture of titles and names, not strictly 16 personal names.

ETA: By including that reference I'm not suggesting it is highly accurate, but rather I am simply including it as an example of the confusion I was referring to in the O.P. In doing so, I also realize that referring to it as confusion, does not give a complete picture of all the issues involved.


Tcg

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

.

Here are the different English spellings I've seen for the title God:

- God

- GOD

- god

- G-d

- Mom

- Mum

- mama

- Ma

- Mother

(I'm not comparing a mom to God; just making a point with one of the titles that I know and hold)

Here are some of the proposals for the name of Biblegod:

- Yahweh

- Jehovah

- Yashua

- YHWH

There is confusion here for a few reasons I suppose: because the name of God - in what is written - has no vowels, and because Israel made it a practice not to same the name of God, and so the pronunciation got 'lost'. There is confusion because some people claim on their own authority what is or is not 'acceptable', and people listen to them. There is confusion because many/most people walk by sight, rather than by faith... and we don't have the full name written down for people to see, except "YHWH" (I don't think there is confusion about that, only about how to fill it in).

Although, we do actually have the name of God in what is written for anyone to see:

Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him. Psalm 68:4

This is also shown in the praise: Hallelu JAH...

We can turn to the Bible for help but in the first two chapters of Genesis we find two options:

- Elohim

- Yahweh Elohim

The first is a title/description for the word 'god'. See here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... v/wlc/0-1/

The second is the name of God written along with the title/description.

The Bible of course uses many other names for its God. One site I found listed 16.

I assume you are referring to descriptions/titles, so in keeping with the mom analogy:

First aid giver

Short order cook

Housekeeper

Wife

nurturer

boo-boo kisser

taxi driver

birthday party planner

lecturer

woman



Peace again to you!

(edited to add in a link for supporting evidence)

Peace to you, tam.

Thank you!

Thanks for the response. Lots of good info here. I wasn't aware of the Psalm 68:4 passage, although the Names of God (NOG) versions lists the name as Yah not Jah. A minor difference to be sure, but I wonder if it's just the first half of Yahweh.

Yes that is correct, it is the first half of Yahweh, or JAH(veh). The two different spellings would be pronounced the same (the "w" makes the "v" sound; the "j" makes the "y" sound). Phonetically, this would be spelled Yahveh.

Jesus (though that is not the name of my Lord) in spanish is pronounced with an 'h', and the 's' is pronounced more with a 'z'. Heyzeus.

Languages also evolve - I don't know if sounds evolve as well, but 'i's and 'j's are sometimes used interchangeably, the same with 'j's and 'y's, and that can make things confusing for some people. Jeremiah (Hebrew) is -and should be- pronounced with a y; and actually, that 'iah' at the end of Jeremiah is the name of God. Spelled with an 'i' here instead of a 'j', but that is just how someone chose to transliterate it (unless it is an error that others have copied).

Either way, it makes the same 'y' sound, and you can see that here:

Yirmyh

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon ... v/wlc/0-1/ (scroll down to Strong's definitions)


Adding to the confusion is the practice of not saying the name of God, but instead just saying "God" or "Lord" even when the name of God is what is written. When I googled the meaning of the name Jeremiah, it came up as "uplifted (or something similar) by God". But JAH should be used there instead of God. I had to go searching for that. So just that interchanging of a title and a name has got to be contributing to some confusion. The word "God" in a name would be represented by 'el'.

We can see that for ourselves, where 'el' = 'God' from the name Elijah (again the 'j' should be pronounced with the 'y' sound):

EL i JAH = (my) God is JAH.


It might be helpful to note here that transliteration (which is how names are moved from one language to another) is meant to keep the same SOUND. The name is supposed to sound the same (or as close to the same as possible) from one language to another, regardless of the century or era.

The last note is concerning the 16 names of God I mentioned. That refers to this source:

https://www.christianpost.com/news/the- ... f-god.html

Of, course I think it is actually a mixture of titles and names, not strictly 16 personal names.

ETA: By including that reference I'm not suggesting it is highly accurate, but rather I am simply including it as an example of the confusion I was referring to in the O.P. In doing so, I also realize that referring to it as confusion, does not give a complete picture of all the issues involved.

Thank you for the link, that is helpful. And it is as I suspected. There is actually only one name used in that entire list. Everything else is a description/title.


My Lord also has a variety of descriptions and titles that denote who He is and what He does, but ONE given name:

Jaheshua:

...the High Priest

...the savior (of JAH)

... who intercedes

... the Anointed One (the Christ)

... the Chosen One of JAH

... the Amen

... the Son of Man, Son of God, Prince of Princes, Lord, King of kings, the Amen, the Holy One (of God), the Life, the Truth, the Word, the Light, Teacher...


Throughout all of that, His name is the same, but many descriptions and titles denote who He is and what He does. It is the same with His Father.



Peace again to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[TRANSPONDER]

I have to commend the research, and yet, at the end of the day, it is a collection of assertions and beliefs that miss a lot and assume a lot of dubious things. King of Kings was an ancient title assumed by bronze age rulers of empires. Howe that got assumed to denote a tribal god I can't be sure, but the hint is that the god of Israel was claimed to be the top god over all the others, that is, until they were all declared to be false gods.

Just thus far is reason not to credit any Bibleclaims.

[Tcg]

I have to commend the research, and yet, at the end of the day, it is a collection of assertions and beliefs that miss a lot and assume a lot of dubious things. King of Kings was an ancient title assumed by bronze age rulers of empires. Howe that got assumed to denote a tribal god I can't be sure, but the hint is that the god of Israel was claimed to be the top god over all the others, that is, until they were all declared to be false gods.

Just thus far is reason not to credit any Bibleclaims.

Right, there is plenty of evidence from the text itself that Judaism was once henotheistic not always monotheistic like some claim it was. Love all these terms, but henotheism being something like the God we worship is the best God but not the only God. It's like when I was a youngster, and no one would pick on me because of my older brother. He wasn't the only older brother in the neighborhood, just the toughest and most dangerous to mess with.

Yahweh... the most dangerous to mess with.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

I have to commend the research, and yet, at the end of the day, it is a collection of assertions and beliefs that miss a lot and assume a lot of dubious things. King of Kings was an ancient title assumed by bronze age rulers of empires. Howe that got assumed to denote a tribal god I can't be sure, but the hint is that the god of Israel was claimed to be the top god over all the others, that is, until they were all declared to be false gods.

Just thus far is reason not to credit any Bibleclaims.

Right, there is plenty of evidence from the text itself that Judaism was once henotheistic not always monotheistic like some claim it was. Love all these terms, but henotheism being something like the God we worship is the best God but not the only God. It's like when I was a youngster, and no one would pick on me because of my older brother. He wasn't the only older brother in the neighborhood, just the toughest and most dangerous to mess with.

Yahweh... the most dangerous to mess with.


Tcg

Mostly for his own people. It was always wryly amusing in my religion class (when there was one) to hear of YHWH assuring His people that he would look out for them, help them to win and see them ok. Then they get beat and some excuse is found. Very often (as i recall) resulting in an even more strident and toxic form of the religion being pushed for, friendly relations with other nations, and allowing your Women to keep the ir religion...ohh noo nnooo..God wil summon the Assyrians to destroy thee. The idea that there was no tribal god looking out for them was never an option.