Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase!

[POI]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

[TRANSPONDER]

Reason why I believe is the Bible and that this world exists as described in the Bible. I don't think humans could have made the Bible without God, because it shows better understanding that people otherwise has.

Please start by giving one specific example of this claim?

For example the idea of single continent* at the beginning and the great flood, which explains why we have modern continents, marine fossils one high mountains, oil, gas and cola fields, vast sediment formations.

*God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

Oh. So you appeal to science evidence to support the Bible, eh? Well, the continent of Pangaea (effectively the whole present map) was never totally covered by water, and breaks up and reforms over time, or so the geoiogy says. And the marine fossils on high mountains are the fossils of sea beds with worm burrows in situ. The ancient sea bed was raised up as land masses collided and pushed the old strata up. So geology denies a total flood, and argues for tectonic plate movement and deep time geology. Science evidence is against a Flood, not for it.

Cue "Oh well, science is wrong then".

[TRANSPONDER]

The Bible presents a variety of methods to attain eternal life.

Really? Please show one example.

The Bible isn't evidence for God or for what God wants. The Bible makes claims about these things. Claims are not evidence.

Evidence is basically some result of an event. Evidence may have many possible reasons, but still, there is something that caused it. Evidence/results don't come from nothing. One reason for the Bible is that God actually did what is told in the Bible and people wrote it down. If it really happened, the evidence for it would be a book telling about it. But, evidence is not the same as a proof. You can believe the reason for the Bible is something else, but still it is an evidence (the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid). Bible gives the reason to think those things and God may be real, because why else would it exist?

For the same reason that the Quran, Tripitaka and Bhaghavad Gita exist. People make stuff up. That's the 'event'. That didn't come close to working.

[Clownboat]

...The Bible gets so much wrong...

One reason why I believe in the Bible is that atheist have not managed to show even one error in the Bible. Many have tried and failed miserably. If the Bible would be purely from humans, I think it would have failed a long time ago and we would not have it today.

It is very interesting how much people have fought against the Bible message and its messengers. Jews and Christians have been persecuted a lot. Why do you think it is so hated that people go to extremes in fight against it?

I was set free from my Christian beliefs. If I can be set free, I have to believe there is hope for others.
Thanks for asking, but you are wrong when you inject hatred. You can keep the hate to yourself as that is what religions cause (hate and division). The love is a farce as I am now a more loving person after having lost my religious beliefs.

[POI]

Reason why I believe is the Bible and that this world exists as described in the Bible. I don't think humans could have made the Bible without God, because it shows better understanding that people otherwise has.

Please start by giving one specific example of this claim?

For example the idea of single continent* at the beginning and the great flood, which explains why we have modern continents, marine fossils one high mountains, oil, gas and cola fields, vast sediment formations.

*God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

Gen. 1:10 states god will call the dry land 'earth', and the wet area 'sea'. There is nothing profound or prolific in this passage at all. A human could certainly convey this tautology (of redefining what one sees), with no problem at all; and without any divine help.

Do you have anything else? Or is this the best you've got?

[TRANSPONDER]

"....cola fields, ...." I always knew it wasn't made in a factory, but pumped out of the ground, like oil, into bottles.

[POI]

Reason why I believe is the Bible and that this world exists as described in the Bible. I don't think humans could have made the Bible without God, because it shows better understanding that people otherwise has.

Please start by giving one specific example of this claim?

For example the idea of single continent* at the beginning and the great flood, which explains why we have modern continents, marine fossils one high mountains, oil, gas and cola fields, vast sediment formations.

*God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters he called Seas. God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:10

Record scratch... This doesn't mention a single continent and certainly not one that floats on water. You've read that into the text.


Tcg

Bingo!

[POI]

No one can prove God, only God can do that and he sometimes does.

1. Based upon what criteria, does He or does He not do so?

2. Is it possible the recipient can completely miss the Christian God's given personal revelation or proof?

3. Why doesn't He just prove Himself to all?

4. How do you know the Christian God has actually proven Himself to anyone?

5. Is self delusion possible?

6. Has He proven Himself to you? If so, how do you know?

1. The criteria : would be that you give as much respect to gods existence as the person standing next to you, as a way for God to review your worth.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... uman-Heart

2. I have no idea.

3. Your missing the point of creation.

4. There are testimonies all over the internet.

5. Sure - why not ?

6. Here is one example:

When I was 17 I purchased a raffle ticket from my brother who was helping raise money for his school.
From the moment I'd purchased the ticket I immediately had the understanding that I was going to win the first prize. Also it came to no surprise when
I was informed I had won.

So I can't explain my 100% of assuredly of knowledge, but it made me believe in the possibility of prophecy and that miracles could be true.
Then many years later I found Jesus and it all just clicked.

1. I tried that for decades, and nothing. Maybe I'm not 'worthy'? But wait a minute..... In the Bible, God apparently revealed Himself to many people who were deemed unworthy? Maybe you might want to take another crack at the question?

What criteria does God use to provide evidence for you?

2. You have no idea if God is or is not able to assure His proof is being conveyed to each and every person He attempts to give His evidence to?

3. You've missed the point of the question. I'll rephrase. He apparently gives proof to some, and not others. Why is that? Especially since we know, from the Bible, that not all ask for His proof and are deemed 'worthy' of His proof of existence.

4. We have countless testimonies for opposing deities as well. Do we count those too?

5. My point here, is maybe you are mistaken. Is that even possible? If not, why not?

6. Please elaborate here... "many years later I found Jesus".

[Wootah]

[Replying to Tcg in post #61]

Yes the question of whether Christianity is Jewish is not the topic. Scroll back and see who brings up the tangent.

The thread is about 'cutting to the chase'. For me I have lots of evidence but at core I say it is faith.

I look for the atheist that is so honest to say they have evidence but in the end it is faith.

[Tcg]

...The Bible gets so much wrong...

One reason why I believe in the Bible is that atheist have not managed to show even one error in the Bible. Many have tried and failed miserably. If the Bible would be purely from humans, I think it would have failed a long time ago and we would not have it today.

It is very interesting how much people have fought against the Bible message and its messengers. Jews and Christians have been persecuted a lot. Why do you think it is so hated that people go to extremes in fight against it?

I was set free from my Christian beliefs. If I can be set free, I have to believe there is hope for others.
Thanks for asking, but you are wrong when you inject hatred. You can keep the hate to yourself as that is what religions cause (hate and division). The love is a farce as I am now a more loving person after having lost my religious beliefs.

And the hatred, the fighting against it, boils down to having the gumption to post on an internet forum one's disagreement. The nerve of some non-Christians.


Tcg

[Inquirer]

Dear Christians of all flavor(s),

I trust it is no surprise there exists a populous here, which lay claim to 'atheism', 'deism', or maybe other... In a nutshell, for me, this ultimately means I do not believe any such claimed Christian God exists - trying though as I might.... Which-is-to-mean, I was raised in a Christian house hold. However, after much study, I cannot get myself to belief such a claimed agent actually exists. Chalk it up, ultimately, to the topic of 'divine hiddenness' I guess...?

It is also evident there exists devout 'Christians' in this arena, of all flavors, who may feel they are 'fighting the good fight'; by defending their belief(s)/faith/rationale in the assertion of the existence to the "Christian God".

That being said, I am laying down the gauntlet, so-to-speak... Some here, as well as outside of here, are as sure as anything, that not only does God exist, but the Christian God! Well, I politely disagree. Meaning, I don't believe the "Christian based" assertion/claim.

I can't imagine this request will be anything new. Nor, can I imagine that I will encounter any new sort of enlightenment. But, being this is a rather large and important topic; I will continue to search, optimistically, that there exists some sort of 'concrete evidence(s)' to demonstrate that not only a God exists ---> but also the Christian God.

For Debate:

Please demonstrate the mere existence of the Christian God?

It is my position after many years pondering this subject myself, that one cannot discover God, find God, prove God to other people. Only God can cause us to become aware of God. God reveals knowledge including knowledge that God exists, has mind and so on.

It is fruitless to ask questions like "show me evidence" because we innately have no way of understanding what evidence for God is, until God wants you to understand you will not understand.

It is written:

The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.

We cannot know God, cannot perceive the reality of God on our own, only God can reveal himself to us and that often happens slowly, painfully, one must undergo a change of mindset, and we cannot do so of ourselves.

All knowledge of God is revealed knowledge, one can look here and look there for evidence but it is fruitless, God is unlike anything we deal with in our fleshly lives and so seeking God on fleshly, material terms is doomed to fail.