The Debilitating Effect of Taking Genesis Literally

[Diogenes]

The proposition for debate is that when one takes the tales of Genesis literally, one becomes intellectually disabled, at least temporarily. Taking Genesis literally requires one to reject biology (which includes evolution) and other sciences in favor of 'magic.' Geology and radiometric dating have to be rejected since the Earth formed only about 6000 years ago, during the same week the Earth was made (in a single day).

Much of the debate in the topic of Science and Religion consists of theists who insist on a literal interpretation of Genesis rejecting basic science. Most of the resulting debates are not worth engaging in.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
So what? What if there was a level up there near the clouds in that particular area where the sons of god lived, and was called heaven at the time? After all no tower is going into outer space! The actual heaven of heavens where God lives is beyond where the stars are, so obviously the tower was not going there! We know angels or sons of god lived (at least part time) on earth, because they took wives here. Right after that tower of Babel time, the life spans suddenly dropped. (not at the flood time 100 years before) Another difference is that after that time of the tower, we no longer see spirits living with men on earth. (there are demons of course, and visiting angels, but they do not check in at the motel 6 and live here today. It would make no sense to build a big tower to any spiritual level in the sky today, there are none. Back then, it made sense.
...

As explained, yes there likely was a spiritual haven in the sky at that time. These days spirit and flesh are separated. A lot changed after the time of Babel, such as life spans dropped by many centuries. Spirits no longer were part of the normal visible world of man. Another change that happened probably at that time is that trees no longer could grow in weeks! I also place that time as when nature changed. That is probably why radioactive dating is worthless for that time and before. Another change that this big event from God at the time of Babel likely saw was that mankind (and most mammals) no longer quickly returned to dust! After this we decayed a lot slower, and left bones and fossils and etc after death. That is possibly why the fossil record has no men and most animals before that time!
...

There is nothing great about pride and rebellion against God. Such sins had to be dealt with (later also in Sodom and Gomorrah) so that mankind would not be too evil too fat. The messiah still had to come, and His salvation be made available to all who would accept Jesus. The world will again be like that in the end. Like before the flood, like the days of Sodom. That will be when He stops it all, and takes over the world to rule with His people.

The debilitating effect of taking Genesis literally.

[dad1]

On earth. That does not mean they will fly out of the universe to somehow threaten the Almighty, that is ridiculous. The pride and rebellion of man meant that God needed to step in. God threatened man, not the other way around!

You still don't get it. The story is an allegory of man's pride and presumption, warning that it always comes to a bad end. It's not about where Heaven is, or what God might be afraid of. You're focusing on the wrong things.

And yet the best minds on earth at that time thought that a tower could reach a spiritual level. Also at that time angels married women and were therefore (some at least) at least, on the earth. Connecting these dots it is reasonable to assume that, at the time, there may have been some sort of spirit HQ (what we could call 'heaven') up above the earth. Your opinion about what it was all about is of limited value as a guess about a different time.
Yes man was proud, and was in rebellion against God. In no way does any of this mean that man somehow threatened God.

In fact, that sort of thinking (that man somehow could literally fight God) will be seen again in the end, when man gathers for Armageddon. The inspiration for that comes from unclean spirits, by the way.

[dad1]

...
So what? What if there was a level up there near the clouds in that particular area where the sons of god lived, and was called heaven at the time? After all no tower is going into outer space! The actual heaven of heavens where God lives is beyond where the stars are, so obviously the tower was not going there! We know angels or sons of god lived (at least part time) on earth, because they took wives here. Right after that tower of Babel time, the life spans suddenly dropped. (not at the flood time 100 years before) Another difference is that after that time of the tower, we no longer see spirits living with men on earth. (there are demons of course, and visiting angels, but they do not check in at the motel 6 and live here today. It would make no sense to build a big tower to any spiritual level in the sky today, there are none. Back then, it made sense.
...

As explained, yes there likely was a spiritual haven in the sky at that time. These days spirit and flesh are separated. A lot changed after the time of Babel, such as life spans dropped by many centuries. Spirits no longer were part of the normal visible world of man. Another change that happened probably at that time is that trees no longer could grow in weeks! I also place that time as when nature changed. That is probably why radioactive dating is worthless for that time and before. Another change that this big event from God at the time of Babel likely saw was that mankind (and most mammals) no longer quickly returned to dust! After this we decayed a lot slower, and left bones and fossils and etc after death. That is possibly why the fossil record has no men and most animals before that time!
...

There is nothing great about pride and rebellion against God. Such sins had to be dealt with (later also in Sodom and Gomorrah) so that mankind would not be too evil too fat. The messiah still had to come, and His salvation be made available to all who would accept Jesus. The world will again be like that in the end. Like before the flood, like the days of Sodom. That will be when He stops it all, and takes over the world to rule with His people.

The debilitating effect of taking Genesis literally.

Not understanding the lessons of history or learning from it is a debilitating effect of unbelief.

[JoeyKnothead]

...
So what? What if there was a level up there near the clouds in that particular area where the sons of god lived, and was called heaven at the time? After all no tower is going into outer space! The actual heaven of heavens where God lives is beyond where the stars are, so obviously the tower was not going there! We know angels or sons of god lived (at least part time) on earth, because they took wives here. Right after that tower of Babel time, the life spans suddenly dropped. (not at the flood time 100 years before) Another difference is that after that time of the tower, we no longer see spirits living with men on earth. (there are demons of course, and visiting angels, but they do not check in at the motel 6 and live here today. It would make no sense to build a big tower to any spiritual level in the sky today, there are none. Back then, it made sense.
...

As explained, yes there likely was a spiritual haven in the sky at that time. These days spirit and flesh are separated. A lot changed after the time of Babel, such as life spans dropped by many centuries. Spirits no longer were part of the normal visible world of man. Another change that happened probably at that time is that trees no longer could grow in weeks! I also place that time as when nature changed. That is probably why radioactive dating is worthless for that time and before. Another change that this big event from God at the time of Babel likely saw was that mankind (and most mammals) no longer quickly returned to dust! After this we decayed a lot slower, and left bones and fossils and etc after death. That is possibly why the fossil record has no men and most animals before that time!
...

There is nothing great about pride and rebellion against God. Such sins had to be dealt with (later also in Sodom and Gomorrah) so that mankind would not be too evil too fat. The messiah still had to come, and His salvation be made available to all who would accept Jesus. The world will again be like that in the end. Like before the flood, like the days of Sodom. That will be when He stops it all, and takes over the world to rule with His people.

The debilitating effect of taking Genesis literally.

Not understanding the lessons of history or learning from it is a debilitating effect of unbelief.

The forgetting of history ain't confined to any one group.

Heck, here in Murica we got one bunch that calls themselves patriots for storming the capital when their guy lost an election.

[dad1]

The forgetting of history ain't confined to any one group.

Heck, here in Murica we got one bunch that calls themselves patriots for storming the capital when their guy lost an election.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that abortion and created gender (male and female as opposed to anything else) were bigger issues. Since media is not believable any more, I would take the events of that day with a grain of salt. There are many claims that there were provocateurs that were agitating and leading the group that went to the capitol area. I don't think it is fair or 'history' to pretend that possibly a majority of the US voters had anything to do with that. As for election cheating, that is an issue. Here we seem to have a similar debilitating effect on the life hating liberals that swallow cheap propaganda and slander whole.

[JoeyKnothead]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that abortion and created gender (male and female as opposed to anything else) were bigger issues. Since media is not believable any more, I would take the events of that day with a grain of salt. There are many claims that there were provocateurs that were agitating and leading the group that went to the capitol area. I don't think it is fair or 'history' to pretend that possibly a majority of the US voters had anything to do with that. As for election cheating, that is an issue. Here we seem to have a similar debilitating effect on the life hating liberals that swallow cheap propaganda and slander whole.

Wow.

I guess he grabbed you by yours.

[The Barbarian]

You still don't get it. The story is an allegory of man's pride and presumption, warning that it always comes to a bad end. It's not about where Heaven is, or what God might be afraid of. You're focusing on the wrong things.

And yet the best minds on earth at that time thought that a tower could reach a spiritual level.

Yes, but of course they though the sky was an inverted bowl with windows in it to let rain fall from the water above the bowl. This is why you can't let yourself get caught up in fact-checking allegories; you miss the whole point, as you did this time.

[Diogenes]

The forgetting of history ain't confined to any one group.

Heck, here in Murica we got one bunch that calls themselves patriots for storming the capital when their guy lost an election.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that abortion and created gender (male and female as opposed to anything else) were bigger issues. Since media is not believable any more, I would take the events of that day with a grain of salt. There are many claims that there were provocateurs that were agitating and leading the group that went to the capitol area. I don't think it is fair or 'history' to pretend that possibly a majority of the US voters had anything to do with that. As for election cheating, that is an issue. Here we seem to have a similar debilitating effect on the life hating liberals that swallow cheap propaganda and slander whole.

Not believing the legitimate news reports is consistent with not believing mainstream science. Such a stance allows you to believe whatever you want, unpersuaded by reality, but beholden to ancient myth and hucksters like Trump who clearly tried to lead an insurrection designed to obstruct a lawful election and the fair and normal transfer of power. Five of them were just convicted, beyond reasonable doubt, and are looking at up to 20 years in prison.

But your concern is more about abortion and your refusal to accept that nature makes some people not fit the simple male/female categories. It's the usual folly of ideology and religion railing against reality and science.

[dad1]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that abortion and created gender (male and female as opposed to anything else) were bigger issues. Since media is not believable any more, I would take the events of that day with a grain of salt. There are many claims that there were provocateurs that were agitating and leading the group that went to the capitol area. I don't think it is fair or 'history' to pretend that possibly a majority of the US voters had anything to do with that. As for election cheating, that is an issue. Here we seem to have a similar debilitating effect on the life hating liberals that swallow cheap propaganda and slander whole.

Wow.

I guess he grabbed you by yours.

Yet, the bottom line with so many people I have seen is abortion. Trump didn't seemed to claim he was pro life. The whole other party seems to clamor for more and easier child sacrifices.

[dad1]

Yes, but of course they though the sky was an inverted bowl with windows in it to let rain fall from the water above the bowl.

Such a view of what the windows of heaven were is insulting to the bible
The windows were some sort of openings in the sky that allowed water to pass through. There was water up there, on the other side of the stars. The firmament was the place where He made the stars and it separated waters below here from the waters on the other side of it. Therefore, I deduce that these portals somehow were a bit like what science imagines wormholes to be. A way to bypass space and time basically and connect areas.

This is why you can't let yourself get caught up in fact-checking allegories; you miss the whole point, as you did this time.

Any pretense of being able to check where and when wormholes over earth in the sky opened and closed thousands of years ago is a joke.