Does Christ speak and how?

[tam]

May you have peace!

A question that continues to be posed to me is with regard to my bearing witness to a living and speaking Christ. How does He speak? What does that mean? How can we test that?

I imagine that one reason the questions are continually posed to me is because I cannot provide the proof that some are asking me to provide. I can only provide evidence in the form of:

a) Personal testimony from having heard Christ
b) The written testimony of or about others who have heard Christ
c) What Christ Himself is written to have said on the matter


If none of the above are acceptable to someone, then I am not sure what more that person and I would have to talk about on this particular matter. We could hopefully discuss respectfully from a point of love, reason, logic. For those who are interested...


Christ said that His sheep would hear His voice.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27

"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.…" John 10:14-16



Written testimony about/from others who heard His voice, confirming the truth of what He said:

The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it." Acts 8:29

**
In Damascus, there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"

"Yes Lord," he answered.

The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." (Acts 9:10,11... and it continues)

**
There is Peter's vision telling him that he should eat foods that he considered unclean, and then after his vision:

While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit (Christ) said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them." (Acts 10: 9-20)

**
There are of course multiple examples from Paul. The entire book of Revelation is from Christ to John. There is a warning against hardening our hearts if we hear His voice.

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion." Hebrews 3:15

Then of course there are the examples of Abraham, who heard, Noah, who heard, the prophets, who heard, Joseph, who heard, Daniel, who heard, etc, etc. Their faith is based upon the evidence of what they heard.



My own personal testimony


I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His. But someone else bore witness to a living speaking Christ, and it bothered me, lol. I had just ended a two year bible study with a certain denomination, and I did not want to get misled by man ever gain. But here was this person claiming that Christ spoke. If I believed this person, that they were from God, then what was wrong with me that I allowed myself to get misled yet again. On the other hand, what was wrong with me if this person did hear Christ, and I rejected them?

But soon into my dilemma (and my asking how I might know, even though I thought I was just asking myself) I heard:

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.


I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

So that is what I did. Along the way, I saw all these verses and examples and testimony that Christ does indeed speak, that God spoke also, though now speaks through Christ. In dreams, in visions, in direct words, in reminders, in opening eyes and ears to a truth that one might read, see, or hear. Once I realized that Christ is supposed to speak, I asked for ears to hear as well. Even though I did hear Him; I just did not know I heard Him. I needed to learn His voice and recognize Him.

**

I was asked how does He speak

He speaks in words. He speaks in visions (I have never had a vision that I am aware of). He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.



(As for testing the inspired expression... anything that is in conflict with what Christ teaches cannot be true. Also Christ (truth) comes from love (God), so nothing that He says will be in conflict with love. Especially since the law that is written upon our hearts in the new covenant is the law of love.)


**

I do not expect anyone to take my word for these things. I do not take the word of others for what they claim came from Christ. I explained above what I did, what I heard from Christ TO do.

If I have shared anything that helps anyone, then great. If not, then no problem. I am not the one people should be listening to if they are following or desiring to follow Christ... I can only point TO that One: Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, the Chosen One of Jah. Christ, who is Himself, the faithful and true witness of His Father, Jah.



If one wants to know the truth of this matter themselves... then ask Christ. That is how one can confirm for themselves. Ask for ears to hear, and in the meantime DO what He has said to do, so that you prove yourself to Him. He does not have to prove Himself to us.

"If anyone loves me, they will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with (in) them."


(Please note that He says that they will obey HIS teaching. Not man's teaching. Not religion or religious leaders, not Paul, not the law, or anyone or anything else over Him. If we love HIM... we will obey HIM. If we love someone or something else more, then we will listen to and obey that one/thing. Including if we love our religion more than Him, although we might not realize it at the time. Including if we think the bible is the Word of God, especially when even that book states that Christ is the Word of God; and Christ himself said, "You diligently search the scriptures because you think that by them you have eternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about ME, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.")



May anyone who wishes them be given ears to hear, to get a sense of these things, and to hear as the Spirit (Christ) and the bride SAY to you, "Come... take the free gift of the water of life."


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #329]

If I had received from you what I am asking you to give, we wouldn't be having this current conversation,

And yet you have, and here we still are.

But is it the truth Tam, that you share what I am asking you to share.


If so, you should be able to direct the reader to those narrations.

If not, then what game are you playing in saying you have done something that you have not?

I am not asking on behalf of myself alone Tam. I am asking for verbatim samples in which the reader can assess what is happening in you mind, and I have no memory of seeing anything of the sort from your writing, and there is no example of verbatim interaction between you and the voice, even in the OP of this thread.

Furthermore, since you imply that this relationship between the voice you hear and yourself is ongoing, it should be no problem for you to make the effort to record conversations you have with the voice and publish them for the reader to examine.
It is important to test what you are saying - and test the message the voice is saying to you. Test to discover what the personality is telling us , is true or not. This is how we can establish who this voice claiming to be Christ is from, and therefore who you are from.

As to the discussion on the evolution of Christianity, it is a distraction to the main event - that being "Does Christ Speak to Tam and if so, how?" How is this done and what is it that is being said - and how is it being said.
[Perhaps we can discuss the evolution of Christianity some other time - after we have agreed together that the voice you hear, claiming to be Christ, is indeed - Christ.]

I want to focus on the voice calling itself Christ and what the voice is saying to you and what you are saying to the voice, how this all happens - in your Mind, as it happens.
Word for word is the best one can ask for, since the interaction appears to be constant for you rather than spasmodic - my ask for verbatim is reasonable as it is clear you are more than willing to spend time writing...

Also, the way you speak about the voice, there is an obvious infatuation on your part, so I am wondering about why you are hesitant to share the interactions, whilst seemingly so much more enthusiastic to defend the bible and the way you believe it came into the world.

So I am asking you to channel the enthusiasm directly into sharing your interaction with the voice, with the reader.

If you continue to be unwilling to supply the reader with what is being reasonably asked of you, then the spirit is tested and found to be something other than what you have claimed/are claiming it to be.

In that, the verdict will have to be "There is no truth to the voice Tam hears, as being that of Christ."

Case closed.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #329]

If I had received from you what I am asking you to give, we wouldn't be having this current conversation,

And yet you have, and here we still are.

But is it the truth Tam, that you share what I am asking you to share.


If so, you should be able to direct the reader to those narrations.

viewtopic.php?p=1041703#p1041703


Peace again.

[William]

While we all wait, I will take the opportunity to answer the thread question, as I understand things.

Does Christ speak and how?

Many years ago I read about the voice of Christ that Christians should be listening to and following after, according to the script.
At the time, I understood this to mean that one "hears" said voice instinctually as one learns to listen for it and did not think of this voice as being in any way a separate, distinctive voice from my own internal 'thought-voice' but one in which new thoughts arose to replace older ones which were shown to be untrue, due to the new information streaming into the thoughts of my mind.

Presently, I have no reason to think that how I understood things pertaining to the subject of Christs Voice then, need to be any different.

In that, the answer to the question from me would be that Christ does speak, and above, is one of the ways in which one can hear Christ speak.

[tam]

Peace to you,

While we all wait, I will take the opportunity to answer the thread question, as I understand things.

Once again, you have long since been given the verbatim examples that you have asked about.


Peace again.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #333]

Christ does speak, and my previous post shows one of the ways in which one can "hear" Christ speak.
Another way in which I interact with YHVH, is shared regularly on this forum, and is verbatim, in that it is recorded word for word as it happens.

The reader who is not acquainted with this method of communion, can view today's interaction HERE

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #333]

Christ does speak, and my previous post shows one of the ways in which one can "hear" Christ speak.
Another way in which I interact with YHVH, is shared regularly on this forum, and is verbatim, in that it is recorded word for word as it happens.

The reader who is not acquainted with this method of communion, can view today's interaction HERE

Your words William:

I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.

Christ did not say "My sheep listen to their own internal voice"; He said "My sheep listen to MY voice."



Peace again.

[William]

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #333]

Christ does speak, and my previous post shows one of the ways in which one can "hear" Christ speak.
Another way in which I interact with YHVH, is shared regularly on this forum, and is verbatim, in that it is recorded word for word as it happens.

The reader who is not acquainted with this method of communion, can view today's interaction HERE

Your words William:

I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.

Christ did not say "My sheep listen to their own internal voice"; He said "My sheep listen to MY voice."



Peace again.

So what Tam?

What is your argument here?

That one has to hear an actual distinct other voice in one's head, before one can declare that one is hearing the voice of Christ?

Also - if you are going to quote me, the most honest way to do so is to provide the link from where you get the quote from, so the reader can check that you are not quote-mining.

________________
[Replying to tam in post #1]

Christ-voice:Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.

I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

Q: Why did you not know that this was Christ speaking to you at the time?
Q: Were you shocked to hear another voice in your mind distinct from your own thought-voice?
Q: What about the advice, makes it true?

[William]

DP

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to William in post #333]

Christ does speak, and my previous post shows one of the ways in which one can "hear" Christ speak.
Another way in which I interact with YHVH, is shared regularly on this forum, and is verbatim, in that it is recorded word for word as it happens.

The reader who is not acquainted with this method of communion, can view today's interaction HERE

Your words William:

I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.

Christ did not say "My sheep listen to their own internal voice"; He said "My sheep listen to MY voice."



Peace again.

So what Tam?

What is your argument here?

Just holding your words up to Christ (the LIGHT). Comparing your words to His words. The reader can make their own discernment. And so you can see for yourself, as well.

He said that His sheep would listen to His voice.

That one has to hear an actual distinct other voice in one's head, before one can declare that one is hearing the voice of Christ?

Not at all.

Just because a person hears a voice (distinct or otherwise) in one's head (which is not really how I have described this) does not mean that voice is Christ. Christ speaks to everyone, yes... but many do not know that He speaks, and would accept or dismiss His voice as simply their own thoughts or feelings, or as a random thought that just popped up, or perhaps just not listen at all. I did not know that Christ was speaking to me either (as I have said). Not until much much later, and then He reminded me of some other times that He had spoken to me and guided me.

Also - if you are going to quote me, the most honest way to do so is to provide the link from where you get the quote from, so the reader can check that you are not quote-mining.

Post 294 (and you responded to the above quote in just that form without objection in post 297). Regardless, the point remains that this is not what Christ said. That is my point.

________________
[Replying to tam in post #1]

Christ-voice:Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.

I still did not know this was Christ speaking to me. I just thought, "Oh, of course... that is what I will do."

Q: Why did you not know that this was Christ speaking to you at the time?

I did not know that He spoke.

Q: Were you shocked to hear another voice in your mind distinct from your own thought-voice?

I have not said 'in my mind' or 'a male voice' or 'a constantly running commentary' (<- things you have added to what I have said).

I said this:

I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His.

Q: What about the advice, makes it true?

If you are going to test a scientific claim to see if it has merit, do you test the scientist or do you test the scientific claim?



Peace again to you.

[William]

[Replying to tam in post #339]

So what Tam?

What is your argument here?

Just holding your words up to Christ (the LIGHT). Comparing your words to His words. The reader can make their own discernment. And so you can see for yourself, as well.

He said that His sheep would listen to His voice.

The problem with that Tam, is - since Christ the person would not be around to instruct as an external voice - did this mean that Christ would be an internal voice, different from one's own thought voice - not different in what words are being said - but in that voice the words were being internally spoken by, was another voice not one's own thought voice, as you appear to be saying of the voice you hear in your mind/thoughts.

Q: Are you allowed to question said voice?

Not at all.

Just because a person hears a voice (distinct or otherwise) in one's head (which is not really how I have described this) does not mean that voice is Christ. Christ speaks to everyone, yes... but many do not know that He speaks, and would accept or dismiss His voice as simply their own thoughts or feelings, or as a random thought that just popped up, or perhaps just not listen at all. I did not know that Christ was speaking to me either (as I have said). Not until much much later, and then He reminded me of some other times that He had spoken to me and guided me.

You have been asked numerous times Tam.

Q: Is the voice you hear in your mind, another independent voice which you could say was not the usual thought-voice of your own?

Also - if you are going to quote me, the most honest way to do so is to provide the link from where you get the quote from, so the reader can check that you are not quote-mining.

Post 294

Okay - obviously you are not going to be more helpful and the reader is going to have to spend time looking for what you could have so easily provided through a link...is it this "Christ-voice who prompts you to behave like that, or something you decided to do for yourself?

[minutes later...four pages back...]

Quoting whole post for convenience.

[Replying to William in post #292]

I appreciate your attempt to bring the matters onto this thread William (peace to you). I will just post a link to my response to Clownboat on that other thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1103287#p1103287



Peace again.

And the difference is accuracy. The difference is what I said versus what you keep changing it to. So why do you do that? Does changing it to 'them' and 'voices' make it easier for you to dismiss or to believe I have a mental illness?

Clownboat has a point here Tam.

Ordinarily we can accept the presence of one voice in our head - the voice of our "self" our "person/personality"

You make the point of arguing that the voice of your dear Lord is a separate voice from your own voice of the personality.

This signifies that you have at least one other voice apart from your own, which in terms of psychology means that it falls under the heading of 'hearing voices'.

If not, then why not simply go with what I said in the first place?

There is no evident reason to simply go with what you say Tammy. That is why the 'spirits must be tested'.

My questions to you, Tammy.
Q: Should you be alarmed?
Obviously you appear not to be. Why is that?

Q: Do you apply critical thinking re what you hear the voice telling you?

When you first encounter this voice, what steps did you take to ensure its authenticity?

Q: Is the voice - as a mechanism - subjective or objective in comparison to your own personalities voice?

Example.
I have just the one voice of my personality in my head, and use it to think with.
On occasion, the internal dialogue splits, as I argue with myself - as if there are two voices going on, but whereby I recognize it as arguing with my self.

I thinknow the process runs deeper still, but all in all appears to be a normal type phenomena which I also link with Jung's Archetypes.

Q: Which voice is it who say's "We have 10's of thousands of denominations because many (if not most) people are NOT listening to Christ."?

[This I ask because, in written form it takes on a tone of you appearing to look down upon other Christians, [and folk in general] as if - because of the voice you hear which claims to be Christ - you are better than anyone else you/your voices - considered to NOT be listening to Christ. Something has yet to be established re your claim here Tam, before it can be accepted as truth, and thus vital.]

I appreciate your attempt to bring the matters onto this thread William (peace to you).

I do this because the subject matter of the other thread is not directly about hearing voice(s) Tam, whereas this one is, and can be accessed specifically for that purpose, and I think what Clownboat has to say in critiquing your claim, shouldn't be lost - as it will be when that thread sinks.

Now we have context, I will leave it to the reader to decide what is going on here.

Q: Why did you not know that this was Christ speaking to you at the time?

I did not know that He spoke.

You did not know any bible verse which talked about sheep hearing Christs voice?

Q: Were you shocked to hear another voice in your mind distinct from your own thought-voice?

I have not said 'in my mind' or 'a male voice' or 'a constantly running commentary' (<- things you have added to what I have said).

They were not added Tam. They have always been mentioned as possibilities re your claim, because - even when asked directly - you chose not to answer in any way which allowed the reader to understand. What you have been asked for is clarification.

I said this:

I did not always know that Christ spoke, and I did not always recognize that voice within me as being His.

Exactly. Can you not see how the reader might be unclear as to what you mean by 'within me'? What that usual means in relation to thought-voicing is related to 'in one's mind'.

Are you meaning something else when you write "I did not always recognize that voice within me"

Can you not see how that would sound to the reader?

Test WHAT this person is saying. Test the message. Do not pay attention to the person. Test to see if what this person is saying is true, or not. Then you will know who this person is from.

Q: What about the advice, makes it true?

If you are going to test a scientific claim to see if it has merit, do you test the scientist or do you test the scientific claim?

Do you think that you are presenting this in a scientific manner Tam?

Any scientific claim which is written by a scientist normally doesn't require the reader to test the scientist, but in this case, you are the one claiming to hear Christ voice "within", so this requires that you answer questions put to you about that claim, because it is purely subjective in nature and the reader shouldn't just take your word for it but question you about it in order to understand what it is you are even claiming.

That is why you are being asked questions.

Q: How often do you think [on average] that you hear this voice?