Inerrant......or is it?

[Ozzy_O]

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 1:5-6
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Everyone isn't a sinner
There are those who are capable of obeying God, that's what scripture says.


So why did Jesus have to die?

(I'm not interested in you posting someone's opinion from a commentary somewhere)

[theophile]

For starters, I don’t think sin is the same as disobedience to the law. If God wanted perfect obedience to rules or decrees then God should have made us robots, right?

More importantly, I don’t think being righteous in God’s eyes is enough. The book of Job is instructive on this, since in the prologue we see that Job was righteous in God’s eyes but the satan still doubted his motives, i.e., that it was because of what was in it for him. This doubt, I would argue, was because of the general sinfulness of humankind (note on this point where the satan comes from, i.e., from walking all over the earth, where as we know from Genesis 1 humankind rules).

Hence God sanctions Job’s trial, to use Job as a redeeming example for the rest of us. First by taking away all of Job’s family and possessions. Second by taking away his health while explicitly sparing his life. All to show that Job isn’t righteous because of what’s in it for him.

So we could imagine something similar going on here, right? Except now things have gotten even worse on earth under our rule and an even greater trial is called for to redeem us. One that no longer stops short of death.

[JoeyKnothead]

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 1:5-6
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Everyone isn't a sinner
There are those who are capable of obeying God, that's what scripture says.


So why did Jesus have to die?

Some stories need the protagonist to suffer them a whole big bunch, to build em up in the eyes of the audience.

[bjs1]

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 1:5-6
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Everyone isn't a sinner
There are those who are capable of obeying God, that's what scripture says.


So why did Jesus have to die?

(I'm not interested in you posting someone's opinion from a commentary somewhere)

I think that most people are capable of understanding hyperbole and symbolic language. Zechariah and Elizabeth were not literally perfect; they were good people by human standards. The “righteous” whom Jesus did not call were not sinless; they were people who believed themselves good enough that they did not need to repent or who thought they could achieve that level of goodness on their own.

As people we don’t communicate in absolutely literal terms. We don’t read other documents that way. We don’t speak or write that way ourselves. That’s just not how human communication works.

If our goal is anything more than finding problems in the Bible that justify our pre-existing beliefs, we will have to read the Bible in a more natural way with a reasonable acceptance of symbolic language.

[Miles]

Everyone isn't a sinner
There are those who are capable of obeying God, that's what scripture says.

Where does scripture say this?

.

[Purple Knight]

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Luke 1:5-6
5 In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly

Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”

Everyone isn't a sinner
There are those who are capable of obeying God, that's what scripture says.


So why did Jesus have to die?

He didn't.

Presumably even if 100% of the people aren't sinners, there's still value in saving the 99% who are.

Take it with a grain of salt because I'm an atheist (though one willing to fully engage with the lore for the purposes of the question), but to me it reads like he never had to. He wanted to. Or at least, he chose to. I think that's what the whole trials in the desert thing was about. He always could have chosen not to do this.

And now I'm going to get extracanonical and theoretical.

What if "dying for your sins" wasn't exactly the issue here? What if the issue was, we as humans have these bodies that want to sin so badly that 99% of us are sinners, and so God was looking to find out what he would do in our place. So he duplicates his personality but not his memories and sticks it in a human body. This is basically a what-if, as in, what if free will actually means God doesn't know at least one factor in this equation?

So in comes Jesus, the incarnation, with these expectations on him of something really horrid to do, that he is expected to do, which is die for everyone else when they are worse sinners. This is what we as humans are expected to do if someone wants to strike us: Let them strike us again. So Jesus has to endure this himself, perhaps the most extreme version possible which is let humans kill him. If he chose not to maybe God would have had to rework the universe and make the bar lower.

[1213]

...So why did Jesus have to die?

Apparently because people are evil blood thirsty murderers who want everyone good to die.

The reason why it was allowed to happen is according to the Bible this:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

Also this can be seen as one reason why it was allowed to happen:

Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh. 12:24

By dying Jesus could be raised from death and by doing so he gave the courage for his disciples to continue fearlesly.

[brunumb]

Apparently because people are evil blood thirsty murderers who want everyone good to die.

This is patently ridiculous to me. Please show that you speak the truth.

[TRANSPONDER]

...So why did Jesus have to die?

Apparently because people are evil blood thirsty murderers who want everyone good to die.

The reason why it was allowed to happen is according to the Bible this:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

Also this can be seen as one reason why it was allowed to happen:

Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
Joh. 12:24

By dying Jesus could be raised from death and by doing so he gave the courage for his disciples to continue fearlesly.

But Jesus was Son of God; they weren't. He was going to be raised because he was God (unless you don't believe that,of course). Because Jesus was raised is no guarantee they would be.

Gandalf: "End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path. One that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass... then you see it!"

Pippin:." What? Gandalf? Sees what? "

Gandalf: "White shores... and beyond. A far green country, under a swift sunrise."

Pippin: "Well, that disnae sound so bad."

Gandalf. "No. No, it isn't."

The bit they left out

"Now, off you go and fight to the last man and the last bullet."

Faramir: "I notice that you didn't tell him that the afterlife is just for Elves and Wizards; not me, Dwarves or Halflings."

Gandalf :"He will fight better if he believes it is."

Faramir: "Comfortable lies, Gandalf?"

Gandalf: "Comfortable lies, Faramir."

[1213]

But Jesus was Son of God; they weren't. He was going to be raised because he was God (unless you don't believe that,of course). Because Jesus was raised is no guarantee they would be.

Bible doesn't say he Jesus was raised because he was God. According to the Bible, there is only one true God. And it was God who raised Jesus from death (Heb. 13:20). But, I agree with that it is not a guarantee that everyone else is raised. However, it is the reason why disciples of Jesus became fearless.