Grace (and/or) Belief/Faith (and/or) Works?

[POI]

Seems there exists an unresolved topic amongst Christians... Seems as though the way to salvation is not unified among the many in which I engage. I'd wager they all have a case to support their position(s).?.?

For debate: How does one get to Heaven? What is God's criteria for His selection process? Is it by grace alone, belief/faith alone, works alone; or it is a combination of the three? Or is it maybe other? Please, not only present your case, but please also explain why the other asserted methods are incorrect.

[1213]

... You are clearly expressing works, to obtain this gift...

What works?

[1213]

...
Well observed, but skirts around the real point, Faith or works? It's known since Paul's first two letters, which is that one can lose salvation by sinning but cannot gain it by Not sinning. That is because we are all sinners by doctrine, even if we never ever sinned. One has to be forgiven for being a sinner by nature, not by actions, and how is one forgiven? That is the point you skipped around; one is forgiven if one believes in Jesus and if you don't believe in Jesus, you are not saved. It is as simple as that. This is the doctrine ever since Paul found out that Jesusfaith did not stop the Corinthian church from sin and warned them that while not sinning would not save (only Jesusfaith would) sinning could lose Grace that the believer once had by becoming a believer.

Sorry, I think you have misunderstood Paul. Disciples of Jesus have right to forgive sins and it can be done without any requirements from the other person. But, as said before, it is not useful, if person after that continues in sin.

Whoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever’s sins you retain, they have been retained.
John 20:23

[POI]

... You are clearly expressing works, to obtain this gift...

What works?

Being "righteous". It falls under the category of 'works'. You have to remain 'sinless', which is likely impossible, under your belief system anyways....

If it's a free gift, then it is unconditional. Everyone gets it. Which means it's answer A).

Being 'righteous' is a condition, which means it's no longer a free gift. You have to earn it.

[1213]

...
Being "righteous". It falls under the category of 'works'. You have to remain 'sinless', which is likely impossible, under your belief system anyways....

If it's a free gift, then it is unconditional. Everyone gets it. ...

Free gift means that you don't do or pay anything for it. Being something is not work. But, I think it is also good to notice, eternal life is a gift for righteous. And it is not the same as salvation, which means only that sins are forgiven. That forgiveness is offered to everyone freely.

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to brunumb in post #328]

Think about what you just said. Do you mean to say God should do everything?

If I don't do something particular does it mean I am not there?

[AquinasForGod]

[Replying to POI in post #329]

Post 322. AFG stated answer D). And if all are not fulfilled, because you died on earth too soon, you still have "Purgatory" to get your ducks in order.

This was not my answer. Grace is not conditional. Grace cannot be earned. Grace is unmerited. It would be conditional salvation, not conditional grace. Salvation depends on grace, which we cannot earn, and on faith, which we can have or choose not to have, and on obedience, which we can choose to do or not do.

God's grace allows us to have the faith that it takes to obey God.

We have freewill and can resist the holy spirit, thus resist the grace of God.

You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you (Acts 7:51).

The Holy Spirit calls us by grace; thus, to “resist the Holy Spirit” is to resist God’s grace.

[AquinasForGod]

I want to further respond to POI.

He is assuming that God's grace is not resistible. That would mean we are not free to choose. However, the bible tells us we can resist the holy spirit, which is how God's grace is given, so we can resist the grace of God. God doesn't force it on anyone and he gives it freely.

God gives grace without any conditions. We can resist it. No contradiction there.

You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you (Acts 7:51).

The Holy Spirit calls us by grace; thus, to “resist the Holy Spirit” is to resist God’s grace.

[TRANSPONDER]

...
Well observed, but skirts around the real point, Faith or works? It's known since Paul's first two letters, which is that one can lose salvation by sinning but cannot gain it by Not sinning. That is because we are all sinners by doctrine, even if we never ever sinned. One has to be forgiven for being a sinner by nature, not by actions, and how is one forgiven? That is the point you skipped around; one is forgiven if one believes in Jesus and if you don't believe in Jesus, you are not saved. It is as simple as that. This is the doctrine ever since Paul found out that Jesusfaith did not stop the Corinthian church from sin and warned them that while not sinning would not save (only Jesusfaith would) sinning could lose Grace that the believer once had by becoming a believer.

Sorry, I think you have misunderstood Paul. Disciples of Jesus have right to forgive sins and it can be done without any requirements from the other person. But, as said before, it is not useful, if person after that continues in sin.

Whoever’s sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever’s sins you retain, they have been retained.
John 20:23

I don't see what that has to do with my argument that Paul originally expected Jesusfaith to remove all sin and they would never sin thereafter(Romans), but when he found he was wrong, he warned that sinning would risk losing salvation (Corinthians) That after Jesus death and the Holt Spritz occupying the disciples allowed them to forgive sins as well is nothing to do with it. Nor indeed that Jesus could forgive sins whether the person wanted him to or not, or so you apparently claim, as I can't recall an example of him doing this.This argument of yours seems to relate to a completely different argument altogether.

However, that said, since it seems that you posit that Jesus can forgive sins (as save anyone) with or without their consent, and sacrifice on the cross was not required, and since anyone with the Holy Spirit can forgive sins and (logically) God can do that with Jesus (in the form of the spirit) in heaven, before having been incarnated on earth, none of it was necessary. Rather as atheists argue, God can just Do it. People don't need to repent, Believe in Jesus or even give consent, though they would hardly refuse, like Jesus reviving dead people.

It seems that you excused this problem out of existence, but invented a heretical Christianity in the process, and good luck with your new Church of Christ the unneeded.

[brunumb]

[Replying to brunumb in post #328]

Think about what you just said. Do you mean to say God should do everything?

If I don't do something particular does it mean I am not there?

Think about what I actually said:

Whenever God doesn't do something, it's never because he's not there, it's because he chooses not to do it. How convenient. A perennial escape clause. Problem is no one can demonstrate that God is choosing to do or not do anything. Get God on the table before you start making claims about his thoughts and attributes.

You are not even close to understanding, or are you disingenuously just avoiding the point?

[POI]

Is anyone else as confused as I'm becoming here?

Free gift means that you don't do or pay anything for it.

If I do not have to do or pay anything for it, are you are then sticking with answer A)?

Being something is not work. But, I think it is also good to notice, eternal life is a gift for righteous.

Okay, but everyone sins. No one is sinless, unless the Catholics, etc are wrong. So the answer is E)?

Or maybe the 'righteous' person is the faithful person, and the answer is B)?

And it is not the same as salvation, which means only that sins are forgiven. That forgiveness is offered to everyone freely.

Some people are forgiven, but are still sent to hell?