Is God evil?

[Compassionist]

There are many verses in the Bible about God's predestination. https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination Why would a good God predestine anyone to do evil? Surely, a good God would predestine all to do good? Does the existence of evil prove that God is evil? Surely, a good God would have made all living things to be autotrophs instead of making some autotrophs, some herbivores, some carnivores, some omnivores, and some parasites? Here are some examples of evil events which caused or are causing suffering, deaths, and injustices:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... death_toll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_g ... death_toll
https://thevegancalculator.com/animal-slaughter

[Compassionist]

No matter what truth is shown to you, you automatically reject it. Its not me its you.

That is not correct. Anyone can make claims, but they are worthless if their truth cannot be demonstrated. Think of all the claims made by other religions, or even different sects within your own, that you automatically reject.

Archeologists have proven many words of the bible is truth.

Open just about any work of fiction set in the real world and you will find many words of truth. No archaeologists necessary. So, what have you archaeologists found that demonstrates the truth of the extraordinary claims in the Bible? How about a magic basket that can hold enough bread and fish to feed thousands?

You never addressed the issue of automatically rejecting the claims made by other religions, or even different sects within your own. Very telling.

I merely plant seeds. God waters the seeds in good hearts.

You're on a debate site. Support your arguments.

Its you debating against facts. I share facts.

You have not yet provided any proof for your alleged facts.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #210

The heart is a pump. Our thoughts take place in our brains.

One of the features of language is metaphor. I'm sure you understand that.

Do you propose that we should all follow the Bible and love our enemies and repay evil with good? That is a terrible idea. What if murderers, rapists, torturers, and robbers team up and carry out these atrocities worldwide? Do we just lie down so that they can carry out murders, rapes, tortures, and robberies without opposition? Absolutely not. Rule of law must prevail. This means deploying the police to arrest the criminals and prosecute them.not. Rule of law must prevail. This means deploying the police to arrest the criminals and prosecute them.

Loving someone doesn't mean letting them do harm, and stopping them from doing harm doesn't mean hating them. If you stop your kids from doing wrong, even if you punish your kids when they do wrong, it doesn't mean you don't love your kids.

Remember the saying: "A good soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him, but because he loves what's behind him."

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #210

The heart is a pump. Our thoughts take place in our brains.

One of the features of language is metaphor. I'm sure you understand that.

Do you propose that we should all follow the Bible and love our enemies and repay evil with good? That is a terrible idea. What if murderers, rapists, torturers, and robbers team up and carry out these atrocities worldwide? Do we just lie down so that they can carry out murders, rapes, tortures, and robberies without opposition? Absolutely not. Rule of law must prevail. This means deploying the police to arrest the criminals and prosecute them.not. Rule of law must prevail. This means deploying the police to arrest the criminals and prosecute them.

Loving someone doesn't mean letting them do harm, and stopping them from doing harm doesn't mean hating them. If you stop your kids from doing wrong, even if you punish your kids when they do wrong, it doesn't mean you don't love your kids.

Remember the saying: "A good soldier fights not because he hates what's in front of him, but because he loves what's behind him."

People used to think that the brain is an organ for cooling the blood and the heart is the organ for thoughts and emotions. They were wrong. What is the benefit of metaphorically using the word 'heart'?

kjw47 was advocating that we should not be returning evil with evil. That would mean not opposing murderers, rapists, torturers, robbers, etc. I am saying that evil actions must be stopped and the criminals arrested and prosecuted.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #213

People used to think that the brain is an organ for cooling the blood and the heart is the organ for thoughts and emotions. They were wrong. What is the benefit of metaphorically using the word 'heart'?

The heart is closer to the center of the body, and the word "heart" is also used to refer to the core of something. It's part of the beauty of language.

kjw47 was advocating that we should not be returning evil with evil. That would mean not opposing murderers, rapists, torturers, robbers, etc.

Wrong. Stopping them from the evil they do is not "returning" evil.

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #213

People used to think that the brain is an organ for cooling the blood and the heart is the organ for thoughts and emotions. They were wrong. What is the benefit of metaphorically using the word 'heart'?

The heart is closer to the center of the body, and the word "heart" is also used to refer to the core of something. It's part of the beauty of language.

kjw47 was advocating that we should not be returning evil with evil. That would mean not opposing murderers, rapists, torturers, robbers, etc.

Wrong. Stopping them from the evil they do is not "returning" evil.

The Allied Forces killed a lot of Nazis to stop them during World War II. The Allied Forces returned evil with evil. The police often shoot shooters to stop them. They, too, are returning evil with evil.

[kjw47]

I merely plant seeds. God waters the seeds in good hearts.

Implies those who reject your unfounded claims have less than honorable intent.

As it exposes you to em thinking it's you that suffers the condition.

The majority of mortals have a form of love. Those in Noahs day did as well. It was unacceptable to Gods view. Even Hitler loved his family and friends. The new covenant Jesus brought says that same love must be given to ones enemies as well. Not such an easy accomplishment since pride gets in the way of most who have premeditated return evil for evil in their hearts.

The heart is a pump. Our thoughts take place in our brains. Do you propose that we should all follow the Bible and love our enemies and repay evil with good? That is a terrible idea. What if murderers, rapists, torturers, and robbers team up and carry out these atrocities worldwide? Do we just lie down so that they can carry out murders, rapes, tortures, and robberies without opposition? Absolutely not. Rule of law must prevail. This means deploying the police to arrest the criminals and prosecute them.

I didnt say law must stop. But the bible is clear--Return evil for evil to no one. Romans 12:17--Yes love is to be returned. That is the love of the new covenant. Vengeance is mine said the Lord.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #215

The Allied Forces killed a lot of Nazis to stop them during World War II. The Allied Forces returned evil with evil. The police often shoot shooters to stop them. They, too, are returning evil with evil.

I believe it was Joseph Campbell who used the example of killing a venomous snake so it won't bite a child. In killing the snake, he said, you're not saying "no" to the animal; you're saying "no" to the situation.

"Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.

Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesnt wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral."

Tao Te Ching, verse 31 (Stephen Mitchell translation)

[Thomas123]

https://www.history.com/topics/cold-war/pol-pot

This makes for grim reading....who is 'the good guy ', here? Attack can become the only form of defense,...who would have welcomed a Third Reich for the new millennium?, and kudos to those who resist tyranny?

Kill or be killed, ....'creative suicide', due to submissiveness helps nobody except the tyrant.
imho.

Make the Call!

[Tcg]

I didnt say law must stop. But the bible is clear--Return evil for evil to no one. Romans 12:17--Yes love is to be returned. That is the love of the new covenant. Vengeance is mine said the Lord.

Are you under the mistaken impression that the bible is considered authoritative in this sub-forum? If so, I'd suggest you read the Guidelines of the C&A subforum found here: viewtopic.php?p=213491#p213491.


Tcg

[Compassionist]

[Replying to Compassionist in post #215

The Allied Forces killed a lot of Nazis to stop them during World War II. The Allied Forces returned evil with evil. The police often shoot shooters to stop them. They, too, are returning evil with evil.

I believe it was Joseph Campbell who used the example of killing a venomous snake so it won't bite a child. In killing the snake, he said, you're not saying "no" to the animal; you're saying "no" to the situation.

"Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.

Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesnt wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral."

Tao Te Ching, verse 31 (Stephen Mitchell translation)

If we were to follow the Bible which says to repay evil with good, we can't kill snakes to protect children from being killed by the snakes. If the Allied Forces did not kill the Nazis, the Nazis would have killed a lot more people and would be ruling the world now. The Bible's command is wrong. It is necessary to repay evil with evil in order to stop evil actions. If the Ukrainians were to follow the Bible's command to repay evil with good, they should be giving the Russians all the land and resources in Ukraine in order to repay evil with good and the West should also be giving all land and resources to the Russians instead of giving weapons to the Ukrainians. Do you not see the problems with repaying evil with good?