Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

[2timothy316]

Trinitarians are not one group.

Is this true? Are there different groups of trinitarians that all have different trinity doctrines?

[bjs1]

The word “trinity” can be applied to many different ideas, but the Christian doctrine of the trinity is that there is one God who exists in three persons.

Since I have never met anyone that identifies as a trinitarian that doesn't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God , I'm beginning to wonder if Ive ever met an orthodox trinitarian at all.

Maybe. I cannot know who you have met. I can say that if any of these trinitarians ever attended a church service – and statistically speaking most have, even if only sporadically – then they have stated their agreement with the doctrine of the trinity as it was described in post 7.

[bjs1]

Well, then that is a major nail in the coffin of the trinity doctrine if no one can describe what it is.

A description was given in post 7. It is the description agreed upon by virtually all self-described Christian groups.

I'll certainly bookmark that post where a trinitarian said Jesus is the Father because that just put the doctrine into a tailspin.

It is perhaps unfair to judge people so harshly when they fail to precisely explain a complicated doctrine.

Can we even put the word 'the' in front of trinity anymore? Perhaps an 'a' is more accurate. Or perhaps 'this'.

Obviously we can call it “the” doctrine of the trinity. To deny this would be like saying that we cannot call the president’s home “the” White House because many other houses are white.

The term “trinity” can be applied in various ways, but when Christians get together to talk about it they virtually always agree on what it means in a Christian context.

[historia]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

There is properly only one doctrine of the Trinity.

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

[Eloi]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

There is properly only one doctrine of the Trinity.

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

In my opinion, the different believers who claim to be Trinitarians are not to blame for so much confusion.

When Logos Bible software was called Libronix, I found it a good tool for learning Biblical Greek and Hebrew, or at least for consulting some reference works that might help me understand Biblical languages, so I bought it. Many books are included in every initial package, so I was browsing some of them to have a more or less general notion of what they teach in some of the modern schools of theology to contrast with what the Bible really teaches and get better on my ministry to other religious persons.

To my surprise, when I tried to read about some topics, such as what they call "rapture of the church", I found that the theology books that were included in the package that I paid for, most of the time do not teach anything as true Biblical doctrine, but they prompt the readers of those books (thinking, I suppose, on the students in those schools of theology where they study those books) to consider many different views that many different theologians hold or have historically held about the topic in question.

The articles about certain topic come to be something like: theologian X explains it in A way, theologian Y says about it that the case is B, while theologian Z considers that what the Bible supports is C, and so on. At the end the readers have to draw their own conclusion from all they read... so by pretending they teach them everything, they actually teach them nothing, and leave the hungry believer much more confused than before they started eating the article.

I guess that the owners of the software are believers and religious persons, but since what they are doing is business, I doubt a lot that they really care about what ideas they are selling, or if they really know something about any of the topics they are pretending to delucidate for the users of the software.

These words of Jesus come to mind::

Matt. 23:13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut up the Kingdom of the heavens before men; for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit those on their way in to go in. 14 ——
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you travel over sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him a subject for Ge·henʹna twice as much so as yourselves.

Who is to blame about this spiritual blindness in the world?

[JehovahsWitness]

The word “trinity” can be applied to many different ideas, but the Christian doctrine of the trinity is that there is one God who exists in three persons.

Since I have never met anyone that identifies as a trinitarian that doesn't believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God , I'm beginning to wonder if Ive ever met an orthodox trinitarian at all.

Maybe. I cannot know who you have met. I can say that if any of these trinitarians ever attended a church service – and statistically speaking most have, even if only sporadically – then they have stated their agreement with the doctrine of the trinity as it was described in post 7.

I cannot confirm or deny that but since the orthodox belief is there is only one God and that that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all the one God they obviously believe all three name apply to the same God. 'If we have three different names applying to the same God and "Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects modalism which believes that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God " unless there is a trinitarian defintition for "name" I am not aware of, then most trinitarians do believe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God.

In any case whenever I've asked a self identified trinitarian if Jesus or The Father (or the holy spirit) the name of God they have said yes. I can only deduce they are a different flavor of trinitarian.

[2timothy316]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

LOL This is funny. You talk as people don't already look down on a lame non-trinitarian such as myself. I'm going to hell by their beliefs, called many names etc, so how can I get a worse rep in their eyes? I can't. They already look poorly upon me simply because I don't believe that Jesus is God Almighty or believe that Jesus is the Father.

Is there only one trinity doctrine or are there many?

There is properly only one doctrine of the Trinity.

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

Well, that is the point of this thread. To collect all those called trintiy doctrines. When I find a new one I'll dump it here.

[2timothy316]

Just as Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have to agree on every point of doctrine, orthodox Christians can agree on Trinity while disagreeing on other points of doctrine.

When it comes to who Jehovah and Jesus is there is no disagreement between Jehovah's Witnesses. We are not talking about every point of doctrine in this thread. We are debating one doctrine.

[2timothy316]

I'll certainly bookmark that post where a trinitarian said Jesus is the Father because that just put the doctrine into a tailspin.

It is perhaps unfair to just people so harshly when they fail to precisely explain a complicated doctrine.

Who said anything about judging people harshly. I am building a case vs the trinity doctrine. Unfortunately the trinity lives not in the Bible but in the minds of people. How is it that I'm the judge of a person when the doctrine they are trying to describe can't be described? If a person doesn't want that challenged and displayed for all to see then why come to a debate forum and post it? Who knows, perhaps the people that have the same doctrine as those in the OP will no longer call it the trinity. That would be good clarification don't you think? There is one thing that is becoming quite clear from this thread is that trinitarians hardly ever discuss the details of the trinity with each other. They only argue about it with others that don't believe in it. Yet, when their teachings are compared...well look at this thread and see what is happening. I get accused of judging people harshly. Yet everyone is stepping over the OP question like a dead body.

Can we even put the word 'the' in front of trinity anymore? Perhaps an 'a' is more accurate. Or perhaps 'this'.

Obviously we can call it “the” doctrine of the trinity. To deny this would be like saying that we cannot call the president’s home “the” White House because many other houses are white.

The term “trinity” can be applied in various ways, but when Christians get together to talk about it they virtually always agree on what it means in a Christian context.

So I wonder how people feel to hear their 'trinity' that is not like 'the trinity' but is really just a plain 'white house'?
Describe 'the trinity' as you see it or if you prefer direct us to a reference.

[historia]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

LOL This is funny. You talk as people don't already look down on a lame non-trinitarian such as myself.

Not everyone reading your posts is a Christian, and not every Christian looks down on you. The fact that some people might already do so is a poor excuse for you to be making lame arguments.

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

Well, that is the point of this thread. To collect all those called trintiy doctrines. When I find a new one I'll dump it here.

As you like. But what I've noticed so far from several people in this thread, including yourself, is the tendency to describe any view of God you personally disagree with as "trinitatian," even when the people holding that view don't themselves call it "trinitarian."

[Eloi]

I find it very interesting that none of the trinitarians that frequent this forum want to answer the OP question.

I would advise against lame arguments like this. It reflects poorly on you.

LOL This is funny. You talk as people don't already look down on a lame non-trinitarian such as myself.

Not everyone reading your posts is a Christian, and not every Christian looks down on you. The fact that some people might already do so is a poor excuse for you to be making lame arguments.

Some Christians have historically put forward different ideas as to the nature and relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Calling all of such views "trinitarian" is confusing, since many of the proponents of those ideas don't describe their view using that term.

Well, that is the point of this thread. To collect all those called trintiy doctrines. When I find a new one I'll dump it here.

As you like. But what I've noticed so far from several people in this thread, including yourself, is the tendency to describe any view of God you personally disagree with as "trinitatian," even when the people holding that view don't themselves call it "trinitarian."

Please, stop getting personal with 2timothy316 ... and answer this if you please:

SINCE: we can find selfcalled trinitarians who say Jehovah is Jesus and others who say Jehovah is not Jesus, or some who say the Father and Jesus are co-equal, and others who say there is subordination among them, some say that when Jesus was a human he was not God and others say he was God even when human, some say prehuman-Jesus was just a non personal internal part of God and became personal only when he was born as human, and others say he was an independent person even before becoming human, etc.

Which one of all those variants of trinities describe your trinity?

1) Jehovah is Jesus or not
2) Are the Father and Son co-equal in knowledge and power
3) there is subordination in their relationship or both have the same authority
4) Was Jesus God even when human or not
5) Was prehuman Jesus an independent person or just an impersonal part of God
6) Was Jesus the angel of Jehovah in OT or not
7) is the Son as person an eternal-in-past being, or was he begotten any time in the past

Thanks in advance.