How does atheism supply meaning?

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Wootah
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How does atheism supply meaning?

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Post by Wootah »

Clownboat wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:32 am
We are either simply part of the world existing for a brief time, in a massive universe, with death waiting and no purpose and meaninglessness and not in control of anything or we can create something and be something. This is atheism on one end and creation on the other.

It's why I don't believe there are atheists. No one can truly hold that view and I certainly don't think any atheists on this site really drink that cup to the full. I tried. Once. A long time ago.
Obviously, people do hold this view, less the meaningless part that was added to poison the well.
For those that are uncomfortable with said view, there are religious options available to fulfill the need to have purpose supplied to them.

What I can't understand is how it is a struggle for some to find purpose in this life and then seem to project that on to others that don't suffer from such a thing. I personally treat this life as something special and have plenty of purpose, because for all I know, it is the only one we will get. The idea of this life being a test for some other life actually would make this life less meaningful as the next would become the true goal. Therefore, could it be argued that atheism supplies more meaning/value for this life than religions in general? Those that struggle to find purpose without religion would obviously not be able to see this and would then be susceptible making claims like we see above.

"No one can truly hold that view" would therefore simply be a projection.
How does atheism supply meaning?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #201

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:15 am
TRANSPONDER wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:44 am
Wootah wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:21 am [Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #192]

Stop gaslighting me - the topic is 'How does atheism supply meaning?'
You're trying to gaslight me. The point I made is not that wasn't the topic but the forum is lax about sticking to it so you were trying to cheat and be evasive by playing the 'topic' card. And now you are tyrying to gaslight me by pretending I was gaslighting you.

:D In fact i love it as it just makes you look very bad, and God knows how often I've found myself showing Bible apologists up that way.
OK I guess that supplies you with meaning. Pretty sure I wrote the thread.
You did start the thread, and if that helps me with meaning, thanks for it. And for letting us explain again that atheism is not a cultural entity that is required to provide a meaning to life (if it ever does, that's a bonus. atheism is just a position (Yes/no) on the god -claim. That's all. Always thankful for a thread intended to wrongfoort atheism that gives us a chance to correct common misperception of what atheism is and what it is not. Quite apart from self -damaging Theist efforts to score cheap and irrelevant points about straying off -topic. That always helps to show what's wrong with Christian apologists.
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am
boatsnguitars wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:55 am Atheism provides meaning because it gives us a reason to attack and berate Theists. It gives us a reason to do whatever we want, including eat babies, kill en masse, and have sex with anything we want.
OK well, this thread served its purpose I suppose.

I suspect that if you can do anything you want then everything is meaningless.

It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
it has served its' purpose and yes, on a cosmic level then, ethically speaking and in terms of an intended plan for humans, it's meaningless. Meaning is what we find, and it's just that secularist meanings are based on reality and religious ones on fantasy.

And so far the blind flailing in hopes to score a hit hasn't been from the atheist side.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #202

Post by JehovahsWitness »

I dont think one can extract meaning from a negative. One can attribute meaning to being alive if one chooses.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #203

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am I suspect that if you can do anything you want then everything is meaningless.
That's very interesting. Could you tell us what meaning you will get from living forever in the afterlife.
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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #204

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
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Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #205

Post by Wootah »

brunumb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:49 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
The free will is demonstrated in the control of motion, not the motion itself.

Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #206

Post by brunumb »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:49 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
The free will is demonstrated in the control of motion, not the motion itself.

Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
It seems we are down the Wootah rabbit hole again. Never mind.

Any ideas on what meaning you will get from living forever in the afterlife?
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #207

Post by TRANSPONDER »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:49 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
The free will is demonstrated in the control of motion, not the motion itself.

Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
Yes, but that's irrelevant. Of course we have choice -making like whether to eat cake or not to eat it. But the act of eating cake is instinctive - you don't have to think about how you do it. This Free will is determinist in that there are reasons for what we do even if they are unthinking instinct.

Same with martial arts v. blind lashing out without any real thought or skill. It is instinct, one untrained primate hate of a perceived enemy who is going to steal their females, fruit or perhaps cherished faithbased delusions and the other has practised their skills so they can do them without thinking.

Educated instinct. The point being that natural reasons (determinist) account for the choice and action mechanism (Free Will). Which seems to be where the discussion ends up - not that it gets God off the hook of the problem of evil and somehow blames man for it, but somehow morphs into the morality/consciousness argument: 'you cannot explain it without a soul and God'. Yes, we can.

'Cue : 'You can't prove any of this'.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER on Mon Mar 20, 2023 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #208

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm ...
Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
Yes.
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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #209

Post by TRANSPONDER »

brunumb wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:23 am
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:49 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
The free will is demonstrated in the control of motion, not the motion itself.

Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
It seems we are down the Wootah rabbit hole again. Never mind.

Any ideas on what meaning you will get from living forever in the afterlife?
Going down the Rabbit hole is great fun. Just be sure you have your ferets with you and the Exit is covered by a pegged net. Then you gottim ;)
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 12:58 pm I dont think one can extract meaning from a negative. One can attribute meaning to being alive if one chooses.

JW
That's interesting. Then what meaning are we supposed to get from 'Thou Shalt Not' repeated 10 times?

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Re: How does atheism supply meaning?

Post #210

Post by Wootah »

brunumb wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:23 am
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 11:38 pm
brunumb wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:49 pm
Wootah wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:19 am It's like free will, yes if you can flail your arms around you are technically showing free will, but the martial artist that barely moves but is like a coiled spring is showing far more free will than you.
Interesting. Could you please explain how the martial artist is showing more free will than the arm-flailing person.
The free will is demonstrated in the control of motion, not the motion itself.

Is free will demonstrated in eating cake or not eating the cake?
It seems we are down the Wootah rabbit hole again. Never mind.

Any ideas on what meaning you will get from living forever in the afterlife?
You asked.

Eating the cake seems to demonstrate action and so demonstrate free will but not eating the cake demonstrates free will more so because you are overcoming something you want to do. Always doing what you want demonstrates less freewill than not doing what you want. IMO...
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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