Is Jesus mediator only for the "anointed class" of JWs?

[MissKate13]

If true, then WHO mediates for the rest of the Jehovahs Witnesses?

[Eloi]

Non-believers will not tell believers how to interpret the Word of God that they do not even accept. Human justice separated from God is not identical to God's justice. In fact, many of the human ills come from putting human ideas of what is "right" above what God deems appropriate and natural for humans, his creation.

Is. 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
And your ways are not my ways," declares Jehovah.
9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So my ways are higher than your ways
And my thoughts than your thoughts".

Prov. 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But in the end it leads to death.
... 30:12 There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes
But has not been cleansed from its filth.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Quote a biblical text or passage in the pre-Christian era where the 12 tribes of Israel are mentioned to see if Joseph is one of those twelve tribes.

No one minds what you say ... we are talking Bible here.

Of course Joseph is one of those tribes. Joseph is one of the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel). Genesis 49. (See Genesis 48:22 to see that Jacob gives Joseph one portion more than his brothers; a double portion.)


Joseph is also blessed doubly; he receives a double portion of the inheritance from his father Jacob, through his sons Ephraim and Mannaseh.

But Joshua said to the tribes of Josephto Ephraim and Manasseh"You are numerous and very powerful. You will have not only one allotment 18 but the forested hill country as well. Clear it, and its farthest limits will be yours; though the Canaanites have chariots fitted with iron and though they are strong, you can drive them out." Joshua 17:17

You are to divide the land into seven parts. Judah is to remain in its territory on the south and the tribes of Joseph in their territory on the north. Joshua 18:5

Joseph is represented twice in Revelation (again, a double blessing), via himself and his son Mannaseh.


The tribe of Dan is not mentioned as one of the tribes in Revelation. For some reason (perhaps because the tribe gave up the portion given to him way back when) Dan has lost or given up his portion. Just as Esau gave up his inheritance (selling it to his brother Jacob). That doesn't mean that the descendants of Dan cannot be part of the new covenant (due to faith); it just means that there are not 12 000 spots reserved specifically for them.



Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Diogenes]

Non-believers will not tell believers how to interpret the Word of God that they do not even accept.

Many 'believers' appear to be oblivious to the fact many 'non believers' stopped believing because they studied the Bible for many decades as 'believers.' Many were preachers, priests, ministers, missionaries and otherwise members of the clergy and Bible scholars. It was their very study of the Bible while they were Christians, that led them to unbelief.

In any event, substituting the ad hominem of their status as non believers is no substitute for actual Bible based analysis, coupled with logic. In short, an ad hominem is not an argument.

[Eloi]

To understand the Word of God requires the spirit of God that contributed to its writing. No non-believer has the spirit of God, and those who were believers and now are not, if they ever benefited from the spirit of God, they don't any more.

John 14:15 "If you love me, you will observe my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither sees it nor knows it. You know it, because it remains with you and is in you. (...) 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. 27 I leave you peace; I give you my peace. I do not give it to you the way that the world gives it. Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink out of fear.

I am not interested in talking to non-believers about interpretation of the Scriptures. They have nothing to teach me.

Have a good one.

PS: Joseph was not a tribe of Israel. Joseph was the father of Ephraim and Manasseh, and his sons' were two of the 12 tribes' names. In Rev. 7:4-8 there is not any Dan tribe, one of the twelve, and there is not Ephraim, one of Joseph's sons and ancestor of one of the tribes. Levi was not one of the territorial tribes of Israel, so it was not counted as one of the twelve; they didn't have own territory by decret of God. In Rev. 7:7b is counted as one of the heavenly tribes without being one of the Israelite 12 tribes.

Obviously some who call themselves "Christians" have no idea what they are talking about... and they pretend to be teachers.
If that is what those who call themselves "Christians" can give, what can we expect from non-believers?

[Diogenes]

To understand the Word of God requires the spirit of God that contributed to its writing. No non-believer has the spirit of God, and those who were believers and now are not, if they ever benefited from the spirit of God, they don't any more.

I am not interested in talking to non-believers about interpretation of the Scriptures. They have nothing to teach me

Perhaps God has "hardened your heart" like he did to Pharaoh.

But it's more likely your [Christian?] arrogance provides a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
The book of Proverbs has much to say about this:

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."
"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behaviour and perverse speech."
"When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom."
"The LORD detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished."

Regarding claims of superior insight, analysis, and understanding in comparing believers with unbelievers, an instructive story is provided in Genesis 20.*
You may recall that Abraham lied to King Abimelech, claiming Sarah was his sister. The lie was the reason Abimelech approached Sarah.

The other interesting thing about this passage is that God told him he would kill him. Abimelech, the infidel, argued with God, using the truth. God angrily relented and spared Abimelech's life. Moses had a 'spiritual' relationship with god, a very special connection. Yet he lied. The 'heathen' Abimelech used honesty, truth, and reasoning. God listened to reason. But I don't recall Him punishing Abraham for lying.

In fact, God rewards Abraham with 1000 pieces of silver.
_____________________
*3 But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, "Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife." 4 Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said, "Lord, will you kill an innocent people? 5 Did he not himself say to me, She is my sister? And she herself said, He is my brother. In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this." 6 Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her.
....
14 Then Abimelech took sheep and oxen, and male servants and female servants, and gave them to Abraham, and returned Sarah his wife to him. 15 And Abimelech said, "Behold, my land is before you; dwell where it pleases you." 16 To Sarah he said, "Behold, I have given your brother a thousand pieces of silver.
__ Genesis 20 (ESV)

[Miles]

Quote a biblical text or passage in the pre-Christian era where the 12 tribes of Israel are mentioned to see if Joseph is one of those twelve tribes.

Certainly.

"Genesis 35 22-26 (ERV)
22 Israel stayed there for a short time. While he was there, Reuben slept with Israels slave woman Bilhah. Israel heard about this, and he was very angry.
The Family of Israel (Jacob)

These are the names of Jacobs twelve sons:

23 His firstborn son was Reuben, whose mother was Leah. Jacobs other sons by Leah were Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun.

24 His sons by Rachel were Joseph and Benjamin.

25 His sons by Bilhah, Rachels maid, were Dan and Naphtali.

26 His sons by Zilpah, Leahs maid, were Gad and Asher."

Of course these weren't immediately tribes, but they were the predecessors of the subsequent 12 Tribes of Israel.

No one minds what you say ...

Well, evidently you do because you responded to what I said.

we are talking Bible here.

Fine.. . .As I said, of the 63 Bibles I checked ALL OF THEM list "Joseph" as being the name of one of the tribes in Revelation 7:8, and additionally in Genesis 35:24 as one of the precursors to the 12 tribes of Israel.
AND, 100% is good enough for me.

.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2]

Are you saying Jesus is mediator for all JWs?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #3]

Is Jesus mediator for all JWs? Yes? No?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Eloi in post #4]

So are you saying Jesus is mediator for all JWs? Yes? No?

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Miles in post #5]

Whats your answer to the OP question? Does Jesus mediate for all JWs? Yes? No?