Is Jesus mediator only for the "anointed class" of JWs?

[MissKate13]

If true, then WHO mediates for the rest of the Jehovahs Witnesses?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #40]

I think the misunderstanding is some people think that when Jesus died for everyone, that makes him their mediator, but that is not how covenants work in the Bible. When we hear covenant, we need to think contract. Just like a contract both parties promise to do something and then they sign the contract, legally binding them to that agreed whatever it was. When Jesus died, this did not automatically place every Christian into a contract or covenant. Even when we are baptized this is not a covenant, it is a one sided dedication/promise that we make. There is no mutual agreement made when we get baptized. There is no Baptism Covenant in the Bible.

[tam]

Peace to you.

..There are those that don't know what a covenant is, mush less care about all of the different covenants mentioned in the Bible. ...

Exactly: You learn a lot from the questions people ask. If someone were to ask me "Which bicycles have you Jehovahs Witnesses designed for fish? " It would be clear they didn't know what a fish or a bicycles is. If they started to get all upset when we reply "None" and started screaming "Just ANSWER THE QUESTION!! I want to know , just give me an ANSWERRRR!!!" It would be clear they were in need of a good dictionary or a good psychiatrist"

Anyone that actually knew what the New Covenant is would not take issue that all Christians are not part of it. When I read "Christ isn't your mediator! Christ isn't your mediator!!" .. AlI hear is "You have no fish bikes! You have no fish bikes! " It's kind of funny, if you think about it; but not funny enough to make me engage.

To learn more please go to other posts related to

BIBLICAL COVENANTS, THE RANSOM SACRIFICE and ... MEMORIAL OF CHRIST'S DEATH

I think this is more an indictment on your understanding than on anyone else's understanding.



The new covenant is for all Christians.

The 'old' covenant was between God and ALL OF ISRAEL - mediated by Moses.

The new covenant is between God and ALL in Christ (aka... Christians, be they 'Jew or Gentile') - mediated by Christ.

The fact that it sounds like 'fish bikes' to you is not the fault of the people asking the question, but rather it is because you fail to understand the new covenant.

You have added to what is written, to what Christ taught, to what the apostles taught. Because in the accounts from what is written, ALL Christians were in the new covenant. There were no non-anointed Christians, there were no Christians who were not permitted to partake, and there were no Christians who were not part of the new covenant, the Bride, the Church, the Body of Christ. Your religion is the one teaching something different than what was taught and practiced.


And misskate is right. No one answered her question, not until she pointed that out and asked someone to please answer. Instead of owning up to that, you blame the person who did not receive the answer to her question - as if she is supposed to know the esoteric interpretations (and changes to them) that your religion has made over the last hundred and some odd years.


Peace again to you and to you all.

[Eloi]

The covenant of the Law was with Israel, and the new covenant is with the spiritual Israel, the annointed Christians, not with the rest of saved.

Rom. 11:7 What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. (...)

Israel was promised that it would be a nation of kings and priests. But they did not fulfill their part of the pact. That promise to be kings and priests is what is at stake, not just eternal salvation. Since only the 144,000 will be kings and priests (Rev. 5:9,10), the covenant that had previously been made with the nation of Israel was transferred to Christ's anointed brothers, who will become those kings and priests...not to the rest of the saved (Dan. 7:18,21,22).

Exo. 19:5 Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. 6 You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites."

Matt. 21:43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.

[2timothy316]

The covenant of the Law was with Israel, and the new covenant is with the spiritual Israel, the annointed Christians, not with the rest of saved.

I'd also like to add that the New Covenant wasn't like the Mosaic Law covenant that a whole nation agreed to but the New Covenant is more like the covenant for the Levitical priesthood. The whole nation of Israel wasn't part of the Levitical Covenant. (Ex 40:2, 12-16; Mal 2:4) Only those chosen are invited to be part of the New Covenant just like the Levitical Covenant.

I have never read about a covenant between God and the rest of the Christian brotherhood thet everyone agreed to. All covenants in the Bible are agreed to, they are not forced. All Israel agreed to the Mosaic Law Covenant. Ex 19:8

[Eloi]

The lack of understanding of Christendom is that they do not distinguish "kings and priests" from other believers.

They all believe they are going to heaven and they all believe they are going to reign and serve as priests. Obviously, under that premise there is no difference between Christians.

However, as you say, in Israel there were differences between the Levites and the rest of Israel. There were also differences between the descendants of Aaron and the rest of the Levites. There were also differences between the priests in general and the high priest.

In modern Christianity everyone believes they are adopted as children by God... and the vast majority do not even know that it is Jehovah who calls and chooses.

Rom. 8:28 We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; 29 because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called; and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous. Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified.

Eph. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ, 4 as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love. 5 For he foreordained us to be adopted as his own sons through Jesus Christ, according to his good pleasure and will, 6 in praise of his glorious undeserved kindness that he kindly bestowed on us by means of his beloved one. 7 By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.

1 Pet. 1:3 Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you, 5 who are being safeguarded by Gods power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.

PS: the Covenant of the Law was replaced with the new covenant: one Israel replaced the other one.

[2timothy316]

PS: the Covenant of the Law was replaced with the new covenant: one Israel replaced the other one.

Indeed, otherwise why call it 'new'?

[tam]

Peace to you,

The covenant of the Law was with Israel, and the new covenant is with the spiritual Israel, the annointed Christians, not with the rest of saved.

ALL of ISRAEL was included in the old covenant.

ALL Christians are part of the new covenant. ALL Christians make up "Spiritual Israel"... which is made of both natural branches (descendants literal Israel) and in-grafted branches (non-Israel Gentiles).


As stated in my previous post, there is no other teaching, understanding, or example from among the apostles (or Paul).

But if you could provide the exact teaching from Christ where He said that some Christians are part of the new covenant, and some are not, by all means... provide it. Your 'other sheep' doctrine does not provide that evidence. Christ does not teach that these 'other sheep' are not part of the new covenant.

Rom. 11:7 What, then? The very thing Israel is earnestly seeking he did not obtain, but the ones chosen obtained it. (...)

Christians are chosen and anointed with holy spirit. (Keeping in mind that not all who call themselves Christian are, in fact, Christian.)

Israel was promised that it would be a nation of kings and priests. But they did not fulfill their part of the pact. That promise to be kings and priests is what is at stake, not just eternal salvation.

Indeed.

Since only the 144,000 will be kings and priests (Rev. 5:9,10),

This, however, is incorrect.

The entire Great Crowd renders sacred service IN THE TEMPLE (and rendering sacred service in the Temple is something that PRIESTS do).

The 144 000 are taken from the tribes that are listed in Revelation. 12 000 from each of those twelve tribes. They're still Christian (because they have been chosen and anointed with holy spirit), but they are descended from those twelve tribes. That is the remnant that God reserved from Israel for Himself. There can be more than this of course, because the Great Crowd is not numbered and consists of people from EVERY tribe, people, nation, tongue... but there are 144 000 seats reserved for literal Israel.

the covenant that had previously been made with the nation of Israel was transferred to Christ's anointed brothers, who will become those kings and priests...not to the rest of the saved (Dan. 7:18,21,22).

This covenant includes natural Israel (natural branches) as well as in-grafted branches.

Romans 11

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Dont you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijahhow he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]? 4 And what was Gods answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

**

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. "

**

Exo. 19:5 Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. 6 You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites."

Matt. 21:43 This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.

Nothing in those two verses suggest that not all Christians are in the new covenant. Or even that not all Christians are "spiritual Israel" (a mixture of natural branches and in-grafted branches).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

ALL of ISRAEL was included in the old covenant.

That is because they agreed to it. (Ex 19:1-8)
When did ALL of mankind agree to the New Covenant? Scripture please.

[Eloi]

The point is that the Covenant of the Law favored the entire nation, which came to be in a special relationship with Jehovah (Exo. 19:5,6). The entire nation was under the priestly arrangement and benefited from that priesthood (Num. 3:10) to maintain a relative cleanliness of conscience and to continue enjoying its position as a privileged nation among all the nations of the world (Deut. 28:1-14).

In the new covenant, a nation is chosen from among a nation, because since the priests and kings will be with Jesus in heaven (Heb. 7:12), they will constitute the group of kings and priests that represented all of Israel while the Law covenant lasted. So while the entire nation of Israel was in the covenant by the presence of the priests among them, now the covenant is made directly with the priests.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."

[tam]

Peace to you,

The lack of understanding of Christendom is that they do not distinguish "kings and priests" from other believers.

They all believe they are going to heaven and they all believe they are going to reign and serve as priests. Obviously, under that premise there is no difference between Christians.

However, as you say, in Israel there were differences between the Levites and the rest of Israel. There were also differences between the descendants of Aaron and the rest of the Levites. There were also differences between the priests in general and the high priest.

And yet ALL of Israel was part of the old covenant.



Peace again.