Is Jesus mediator only for the “anointed class” of JW’s?

[MissKate13]

If true, then WHO mediates for the rest of the Jehovah’s Witnesses?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to tam in post #86]

Said the pot to the kettle.

My responses are short for your posts as there is no Biblical support in your posts so I respond in kind. I've learned over the years to respond to people that do not give scripture when asked to support their dogma is a waste of my time. Do you how many of your posts quote scriptures that Christians will rule over non-Christians? 0

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #86]

Said the pot to the kettle.

Not at all.

We were referring to things that we both already accept.

We both accept that Christians will be reigning with Christ in the Kingdom for a thousand years. I assume you already know the scripture for that.

We both accept that there will be subjects of the Kingdom. I don't know if there is a specific verse which states that; it is something that we reason toward.

We both accept that there will be people who were not Christian who are in the Kingdom for those thousand years.


We are now reasoning on the matter, and I am questioning the limitations and interpretations you have placed upon the scriptures that we both already accept.

My responses are short for your posts as there is no Biblical support in your posts so I respond in kind.

I do not care about the length of your responses. I care that you ignored all the ground we just covered to simply go back and repeat your belief.

I've learned over the years to respond to people that do not give scripture when asked to support their dogma is a waste of my time. Do you how many of your posts quote scriptures that Christians will rule over non-Christians? 0

Why do I need to post scriptural support for something that you already accept?

And I did refer to scriptures in my posts. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you know them.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

Well Paul would disagree with you.

In fact, YOU would disagree with you because you have already said that there will be people who were non-Christian who are resurrected into the Kingdom and who will dwell upon the earth forever.

But from Paul (Romans 2),

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Some people of the nations (gentiles) will be declared righteous based upon what they DO... NATURALLY. The law (love) is written upon their hearts and they do the requirement of that law NATURALLY.


Then also, the sheep from the sheep and the goats account (an event that occurs after Christ returns) are invited into the Kingdom based upon things they have done (unknowingly) for Christ. Not based on their faith. Of all the things mentioned in that account, faith is not one of the reasons they are invited into the Kingdom. The sheep didn't even know that they had done something for Christ to begin with. Obviously they would now know that Christ and His Father do exist. But before that time they did not know Christ or God even though they, themselves, were known and loved because of what they did (even unknowingly) for Christ.


**

You might want to be a bit cautious here as well, looking down upon others as if no one but you and your group can be righteous. Usually there is a fall that comes after a thought like that.


Peace again to you and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #86]

And I did refer to scriptures in my posts. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you know them.

ALWAYS post your scriptures and don't assume anything.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

Well Paul would disagree with you.

In fact, YOU would disagree with you because you have already said that there will be people who were non-Christian who are resurrected into the Kingdom and who will dwell upon the earth forever.

But from Paul (Romans 2),

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Some people of the nations (gentiles) will be declared righteous based upon what they DO... NATURALLY. The law (love) is written upon their hearts and they do the requirement of that law NATURALLY.

Nowhere does it say that a person is declared righteous by what they do naturally. These are you own words. This scripture has everything to do with the Christians in Rome and he was telling them that a person with a natural born conscience and following it has better conduct than a person who knows the law but doesn't follow it. This was not a letter to them saying that a person with a conscience that comes natural to all people are declared righteous like a person that follows God's laws. It DOES say that a person that follow God's law is declared righteous.

Only person who's conscience has been trained to follow Christ has clear conscience before God and is acceptable to Him.
"Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ." - 1 Peter 3:16.

Do you know what they call a person who maintains a good conscience by following Christ? A Christian.

Though, please be clear, are you saying that their will people on Earth that will never follow Christ's example but will be declared righteous and will live forever?

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #86]

And I did refer to scriptures in my posts. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you know them.

ALWAYS post your scriptures and don't assume anything.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

Well Paul would disagree with you.

In fact, YOU would disagree with you because you have already said that there will be people who were non-Christian who are resurrected into the Kingdom and who will dwell upon the earth forever.

But from Paul (Romans 2),

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Some people of the nations (gentiles) will be declared righteous based upon what they DO... NATURALLY. The law (love) is written upon their hearts and they do the requirement of that law NATURALLY.

Nowhere does it say that a person is declared righteous by what they do naturally.

It says it right there timothy.

but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,

They do the things required by the law NATURALLY. It is right there in black and white. These ones will be declared righteous. When? Paul answers that question as well:

This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through [Jesus] Christ, as my gospel declares.


But even if you cannot see that, you already AGREE that there are people who were not Christian who will be living in the Kingdom, dwelling upon the earth forever, and that these ones will be declared righteous.

So again, there is no need for "Christian to be reigning over Christian", because there will already be non-Christians having entered into the Kingdom as subjects of the Kingdom.


Speaking of NOT supporting a claim with a verse... you have provided no scripture that states Christian will be reigning over Christian in the Kingdom. Indeed, that is not something that was taught by Christ, nor by Paul, nor by the apostles. ALL Christians were the Church, the Bride, the Body of Christ, the brothers of Christ. ALL partook of the bread and the wine (just as all Israel ate the manna... even the foreigners who left Egypt with them ate the manna).


No matter how you look at it, your religion is teaching something different than that, something that none of them spoke a single word about.

These are you own words. This scripture has everything to do with the Christians in Rome and he was telling them that a person with a natural born conscience and following it has better conduct than a person who knows the law but doesn't follow it.

And these are your own words.

This was not a letter to them saying that a person with a conscience that comes natural to all people are declared righteous like a person that follows God's laws. It DOES say that a person that follow God's law is declared righteous.

Paul is not talking about the conscience being natural. He is talking about what people DO - some do NATURALLY the requirements of the law. Such a person will be declared righteous.

Indeed, when Gentiles who do not have the law DO BY NATURE the things required by the law...

Their conscience is what bears witness for (or against) them.

Did Paul not also say that love is the fulfillment of the law? Romans 13:8

Did Peter not say (quoting from Proverbs) that love covers over a multitude of sins? 1Peter 4:8

Christians reign with Christ. But there are others who enter into the Kingdom who were never Christian, but who do BY NATURE the requirements of the law; not to mention the fact of doing good to Christ (unknowingly) by doing good to even a least one of His brothers. Just as some were told not to forgo showing hospitality to strangers, because in doing so, they might be showing hospitality to angels without realizing it (Hebrews 13:2).


Why would an angel be in disguise? To help reveal what is truly in person. Perhaps that person does good because they want to please their Father in heaven (they are acting upon what is in their heart, love for their Father in heaven). But a person who does not believe in God could could do good just because it is in them to do; they are acting upon what is in their heart (in this case, love). A person could be doing both as well (doing good to others out of love for their Father in heaven and out of love for their fellow man).

Only person who's conscience has been trained to follow Christ has clear conscience before God and is acceptable to Him.
"Maintain a good conscience, so that in whatever way you are spoken against, those who speak against you may be put to shame because of your good conduct as followers of Christ." - 1 Peter 3:16.

That scripture does not support your claim that no one other than Christians can follow the law (love).

Do you know what they call a person who maintains a good conscience by following Christ? A Christian.

That doesn't mean no one else can follow the law (love) by nature.

Though, please be clear, are you saying that their will people on Earth that will never follow Christ's example but will be declared righteous and will live forever?

Of course not.

But these ones are already following the law (love). They simply were not Christian. They could have been atheists (obviously they will no longer be atheists after Christ returns), Muslims, agnostics, Buddhists, etc, etc.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #86]

And I did refer to scriptures in my posts. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you know them.

ALWAYS post your scriptures and don't assume anything.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

Well Paul would disagree with you.

In fact, YOU would disagree with you because you have already said that there will be people who were non-Christian who are resurrected into the Kingdom and who will dwell upon the earth forever.

But from Paul (Romans 2),

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Some people of the nations (gentiles) will be declared righteous based upon what they DO... NATURALLY. The law (love) is written upon their hearts and they do the requirement of that law NATURALLY.

Nowhere does it say that a person is declared righteous by what they do naturally.

It says it right there timothy.

No, you say it, Paul doesn't say it. Paul says, "those who obey the law who will be declared righteous" not those who obey their own consciences are declared righteous. These are your words.

Though, please be clear, are you saying that their will people on Earth that will never follow Christ's example but will be declared righteous and will live forever?

Of course not.

But these ones are already following the law (love). They simply were not Christian. They could have been atheists (obviously they will no longer be atheists after Christ returns), Muslims, agnostics, Buddhists, etc, etc.

Resurrected ones might have been atheists etc but turn to following Christ during the 1000 year reign. Yes Christ will rule over them until they become Christ's followers. In the end, this goes back to my original statement it will be the 144,000 with Christ that will be ruling over Christians because after the 1000 year reign is over there will only be those that follow God's appointed King Jesus Christ on the Earth. However, anyone that chooses now that they will not follow Jesus rule will not survive Armageddon and if a person is resurrected and chooses to reject Christ's rule they will not survive the 1000 year reign. It will not matter if they follow their natural conscience in their behavior.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I feel as though we are taking a trip down the rabbit hole when it doesn't even matter since you already agree that in the Kingdom are people who were never Christian. Therefore, there are already subjects in the Kingdom who are not Christian, and Christians do not need to be subjects in order for other Christians to have someone to reign OVER.

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #86]

And I did refer to scriptures in my posts. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that you know them.

ALWAYS post your scriptures and don't assume anything.

“The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”​—Ps 37:29.
Who are these righteous people? Non-Christians?! Ridiculous!

Well Paul would disagree with you.

In fact, YOU would disagree with you because you have already said that there will be people who were non-Christian who are resurrected into the Kingdom and who will dwell upon the earth forever.

But from Paul (Romans 2),

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Some people of the nations (gentiles) will be declared righteous based upon what they DO... NATURALLY. The law (love) is written upon their hearts and they do the requirement of that law NATURALLY.

Nowhere does it say that a person is declared righteous by what they do naturally.

It says it right there timothy.

No, you say it, Paul doesn't say it. Paul says, "those who obey the law who will be declared righteous" not those who obey their own consciences are declared righteous. These are your words.

I never said that those who obey their consciences will be declared righteous.

Paul said that those who obey the law will be declared righteous. He then says that there are some who do BY NATURE the things required by the law.

THEREFORE, these ones are obeying the law.

THEREFORE, these ones will be declared righteous.

(I believe Jews even have a term for something similar to this [though they might limit it to very few people]: righteous among the nations.)

Though, please be clear, are you saying that their will people on Earth that will never follow Christ's example but will be declared righteous and will live forever?

Of course not.

But these ones are already following the law (love). They simply were not Christian. They could have been atheists (obviously they will no longer be atheists after Christ returns), Muslims, agnostics, Buddhists, etc, etc.

Resurrected ones might have been atheists etc

Then you should have no argument with the facts summed up at the very top of this post.

There are people who reign with Christ.

There are people who are subjects of the Kingdom.

Since there are many in the Kingdom who were never Christian, there is no need for Christians to be subjects of the Kingdom in order for other Christians to have someone to reign over.

**

You have provided no scripture that Christians will reign over other Christians. That is not something that was ever taught by Christ or the apostles or Paul. ALL Christians were the Church, the Bride, the brothers of Christ, the Body of Christ.

Your religion teaches something different than that. That is something you need to work out. There is no reason for me (or anyone else) to listen to a religion that teaches something different than Christ, than even the apostles or Paul.



Peace again to you.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to tam in post #96]

If one isn't a Christian that is going to be a King and priest then what are they? If you don't like the fact there will be Christian going to heaven to be rulers over other Christians then you'll really not like the fact there will be princes on Earth who be in positions of leadership carrying out the directions of the King and his co-rulers. These will be human and not spirits.

[onewithhim]

Christ's church includes only spiritual Jews.

Didn't read this anywhere. Got a chapter and verse? And I assume you now consider yourself a Jew. That about right?

.

I have posted in detail why Christ's true church is made up of spiritual Israelites. I have provided many chapters and verses.

And no, I don't consider myself a spiritual Jew. Those are the anointed ones who rule with Jesus in heaven. I look forward to living forever on this beautiful planet.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #96]

If one isn't a Christian that is going to be a King and priest then what are they?

A non-Christian.

Possibly a disciple not (yet) anointed with holy spirit.

But all Christians are the Bride, the Church, the Body of Christ. There was no such teaching from Christ or the apostles or Paul as a Christian who was not part of the Body of Christ, who was not the Church, the Bride. ALL Christians were the Bride, the Church, the Body of Christ.



Peace again to you.

[2timothy316]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #96]

If one isn't a Christian that is going to be a King and priest then what are they?

A non-Christian.

Possibly a disciple not (yet) anointed with holy spirit.

But all Christians are the Bride, the Church, the Body of Christ. There was no such teaching from Christ or the apostles or Paul as a Christian who was not part of the Body of Christ, who was not the Church, the Bride. ALL Christians were the Bride, the Church, the Body of Christ.



Peace again to you.

Wait, now you think that the rulers in Heaven will not be Christians? What?! Just when I think I've heard it all.