Christianity's Problem

[POI]

God wants to communicate truth to his creation, right? Thus, if this is the case, then why communicate like he did? Many were/are illiterate, and/or are lazy. Meaning, many Christians have not made a true effort to read their Bible's, from cover to cover, and try to understand it completely. God would know all of this. But even if all read the Bible, and felt they understood every word, mass disagreement would soon develop anyways. As evidence by the endless denominations. Further, even the highly educated do not agree. Heck, we can even go as far as to establish that people who study hermeneutics do not agree. Even in the best case of scenarios, if everyone were to pick up a Bible, read it several times from cover to cover; mass disagreement, on many topics, would likely still persist.

For Debate:

Seems as though Jesus-God did a poor job in clearly conveying his message(s). Does Jesus-God REALLY wish to convey truth to his creation? Because if he does, why be satisfied with the published Bible?

[Diogenes]

...
Seems as though Jesus-God did a poor job in clearly conveying his message(s). Does Jesus-God REALLY wish to convey truth to his creation? Because if he does, why be satisfied with the published Bible?

It seems to me that Bible is good for anyone who loves truth and remains in truth. And by what I see, the problems come only when people are not truthful. I believe that is why God is satisfied with the Bible.

This response does not really touch upon the intent here... We have countless earnest Christians, who all think they have the right interpretation(s). And yet, they cannot not all be right. How is God pleased with this result?

Your response lends nothing to the topic. Why? All you are effectively saying, is that anyone who does not translate the Bible like YOU do, does not like truth. And this would include millions, if not billions of proclaimed Christians, who claim just as much, if not more, honesty than you.

Maybe it's YOU, who does not like truth, because you interpret the Bible differently than another fellow Christian.

Exactly!
And it is too bad because, as 1213 says, many (maybe most) Christians are sincere and may "love the truth," but unfortunately they were taught to interpret the Bible literally and even treat it as an idol, as "THE WORD of GOD" instead of understanding it the way most Biblical scholars do, as literature never intended as scientific and historical truth in the modern sense. Conrad Hyers makes this point very well in an essay any and every Christian who loves the Bible and loves the truth should read at https://ncse.ngo/genesis-knows-nothing- ... reationism. Hyers is specifically addressing the unfortunate "scientific creationism" obsession, but his analysis has wider application.

[1213]

This response does not really touch upon the intent here... We have countless earnest Christians, who all think they have the right interpretation(s). And yet, they cannot not all be right. How is God pleased with this result?

Your response lends nothing to the topic. Why? All you are effectively saying, is that anyone who does not translate the Bible like YOU do, does not like truth. And this would include millions, if not billions of proclaimed Christians, who claim just as much, if not more, honesty than you.

Maybe it's YOU, who does not like truth, because you interpret the Bible differently than another fellow Christian.

Why do you think I interpret? I think the problem comes from the desire to interpret things, it leads people away from truth. Truthful is to take the text as it is written and explained in the text.

[1213]

It seems to me that Bible is good for anyone who loves truth and remains in truth. And by what I see, the problems come only when people are not truthful. I believe that is why God is satisfied with the Bible.

Because only people who believe in claims that can't be shown to be true are truthful?

You might as well just say something bad about our mothers.

Sorry, if I offend you. What I said is not really about believing, but about remaining truthful. This means for example, if Bible tells, "love your neighbor", truthful person says, that is what the Bible tells, and don't try to interpret it to something else. If all would remain truth that way, they would see the text the same way. Problems come, when some people don't like what is said in the Bible and then twist it to mean something else, by interpreting it for their desires.

This means, there is no problem in the Bible, everyone who reads it truthfully, as it is, without adding own meanings to it, have the same text. The reason for different denominations is not the Bible, but people who don't like the message and twist it for their own purposes.

[JoeyKnothead]

It seems to me that Bible is good for anyone who loves truth and remains in truth. And by what I see, the problems come only when people are not truthful. I believe that is why God is satisfied with the Bible.

Because only people who believe in claims that can't be shown to be true are truthful?

You might as well just say something bad about our mothers.

Sorry, if I offend you. What I said is not really about believing, but about remaining truthful. This means for example, if Bible tells, "love your neighbor", truthful person says, that is what the Bible tells, and don't try to interpret it to something else. If all would remain truth that way, they would see the text the same way. Problems come, when some people don't like what is said in the Bible and then twist it to mean something else, by interpreting it for their desires.

Doesn't the Bible also instruct folks to stone people?

How many 'truths' have you thrown?

This means, there is no problem in the Bible, everyone who reads it truthfully, as it is, without adding own meanings to it, have the same text. The reason for different denominations is not the Bible, but people who don't like the message and twist it for their own purposes.

Our problem here is that the way it's presented, the Bible leaves itself open to interpretation.

[POI]

This response does not really touch upon the intent here... We have countless earnest Christians, who all think they have the right interpretation(s). And yet, they cannot not all be right. How is God pleased with this result?

Your response lends nothing to the topic. Why? All you are effectively saying, is that anyone who does not translate the Bible like YOU do, does not like truth. And this would include millions, if not billions of proclaimed Christians, who claim just as much, if not more, honesty than you.

Maybe it's YOU, who does not like truth, because you interpret the Bible differently than another fellow Christian.

Why do you think I interpret?

Are you saying you do not understand what the Bible is trying to say? All-the-while, going on and on about how Jesus wants us to be righteous, for example? Which one is it? You do or do not interpret? (i.e.):

A) You have no idea what the Bible is trying to convey, which then does not say much for the God who is apparently trying to convey truth in his message(s).
B) You have a particular interpretation, which does not align with other earnest Christians --- which then brings me back to the question in bold red above.

[TRANSPONDER]

This response does not really touch upon the intent here... We have countless earnest Christians, who all think they have the right interpretation(s). And yet, they cannot not all be right. How is God pleased with this result?

Your response lends nothing to the topic. Why? All you are effectively saying, is that anyone who does not translate the Bible like YOU do, does not like truth. And this would include millions, if not billions of proclaimed Christians, who claim just as much, if not more, honesty than you.

Maybe it's YOU, who does not like truth, because you interpret the Bible differently than another fellow Christian.

Why do you think I interpret? I think the problem comes from the desire to interpret things, it leads people away from truth. Truthful is to take the text as it is written and explained in the text.

Clearly you do as I'm sure that on many occasions, you have rejected what the Bible says in favour of what you think it Really says.or should have said. Interpretation.

[Tcg]

...
Seems as though Jesus-God did a poor job in clearly conveying his message(s). Does Jesus-God REALLY wish to convey truth to his creation? Because if he does, why be satisfied with the published Bible?

It seems to me that Bible is good for anyone who loves truth and remains in truth. And by what I see, the problems come only when people are not truthful. I believe that is why God is satisfied with the Bible.

This is a perfect example of 1213's inability to support the bible. Given that he can't, he attacks the people who are smart enough to see the absurd notion that it is reliable. The bible is a hot mess. Giants, 900+ year old men, a global flood, 6,000-year-old world, an afterlife. I love the truth which is exactly why I see and reject the idea that this book contains truth.


Tcg

[Tcg]

It seems to me that Bible is good for anyone who loves truth and remains in truth. And by what I see, the problems come only when people are not truthful. I believe that is why God is satisfied with the Bible.

Because only people who believe in claims that can't be shown to be true are truthful?

You might as well just say something bad about our mothers.

Sorry, if I offend you. What I said is not really about believing, but about remaining truthful. This means for example, if Bible tells, "love your neighbor", truthful person says, that is what the Bible tells, and don't try to interpret it to something else. If all would remain truth that way, they would see the text the same way. Problems come, when some people don't like what is said in the Bible and then twist it to mean something else, by interpreting it for their desires.

This means, there is no problem in the Bible, everyone who reads it truthfully, as it is, without adding own meanings to it, have the same text. The reason for different denominations is not the Bible, but people who don't like the message and twist it for their own purposes.

This is yet another example of blaming people for the hot mess that the bible is. If 1213 could support the bible he would. Instead, he attacks those that don't agree with his particular absurd interpretations of it.


Tcg

[Diogenes]

Giants, 900+ year old men, a global flood, 6,000-year-old world, an afterlife. I love the truth which is exactly why I see and reject the idea that this book contains truth.

I am, finally, beginning to see the people who believe this stuff as victims... victims of childhood indoctrination. I don't want to ridicule them... tho' when they INSIST on pushing this nonsense onto others, my sympathy wanes. I find it hard to find compassion for the most ardent purveyors of rubbish, the JWs, the hyper fundamentalists, those who happily and hysterically insist on exchanging truth for a mess of Biblical pottage.
I have my greatest sympathies for those who honestly and arduously try to prove the most nonsensical: the myths of genesis with it's hilariously obvious fictions like the 'Tower of Babel' or Noah's Flood. In any other context than religion this would be a confession of insanity. They are so desperate they have, for 2000 years, proclaimed (seriously ) the detritus of relics from the tons of fake lumber of 'the cross' to the "Cloth of Turin" as the actual burial fabric of a man crucified 2000 years ago. More than 10,000 'relics' proved false, yet THIS one is real.

I admire the diligence and effort that goes into it... and the sincerity, but... REALLY? They might as well try to convince us of the 'reality' of Caspar the friendly ghost.

[brunumb]

I find it hard to find compassion for the most ardent purveyors of rubbish, the JWs, the hyper fundamentalists, those who happily and hysterically insist on exchanging truth for a mess of Biblical pottage.

It has gone beyond just Biblical nonsense with people now violently insisting that men can be women and women can be men. The human mind seems to be prone to indoctrination that enables us to subsume common sense and scientific fact in favour of some sort of emotional comfort.