A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

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Miles
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A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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I came across the following piece in Wikipedia some time ago, and recently remembered how priceless it was and thought I'd share.

"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. Watch Tower Society publications have made, and continue to make, predictions about world events they believe were prophesied in the Bible.[1] Some of those early predictions were described as "established truth",[2] and beyond any doubt.[3] Witnesses are told to "be complete in accepting the visible organization's direction in every aspect" and that there is no need to question what God tells them through his Word and organization since love "believes all things".[4][5][6] If a member advocates views different from what appears in print, they face expulsion.[7][8][9]

Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some teachings. The Society's publications have at times suggested that members had previously "read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended"[10] or that the beliefs of members were "based on wrong premises".[11] According to Professor Edmond Gruss, other failed predictions were ignored, and replaced with new predictions; for example, in the book, The Finished Mystery (1917), events were applied to the years 1918 to 1925 that earlier had been held to occur prior to 1914. When the new interpretations also did not transpire, the 1926 edition of the book changed the statements and removed the dates.[12]


Predictions (by date of publication) include:

1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men".[29]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions". Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy". The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us".[38]
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century.... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that".[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45][46]
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "[s]hortly, within our twentieth century".[47]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service".[48]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[49]
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[50] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".


It should be noted that on average a new prediction was coming out about every 5 1/2 years, but since 1989, 34 years ago, nada. Can we assume the JW prediction business has since shut down?


QUESTIONS:
1. Should continuing blunders such as these have any bearing on the credibility of a religion? Any religion?
2. What do you think it says about the Jehovah's Witnesses religion?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #41

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 4:31 pm
Miles wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 10:23 pm .




QUESTIONS:
1. Should continuing blunders such as these have any bearing on the credibility of a religion? Any religion?
2. What do you think it says about the Jehovah's Witnesses religion?

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Don't you think it is a good thing that a religion stops its attempts at interpreting certain Bible passages by use of educated guesses?
Educated guesses or not, as long as there are people around who believe them, yes, I do.

The WT doesn't claim to be prophets, they merely try to explain what God tells us in the Bible.[
While I don't recall the WT ever saying "I/we prophesize . . . ." Or "I/we are prophets." its pronouncements, filled with "would"s, come across as prophesies: "claims of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information. (Wikipedia)"


A few prophesies---obviously all failed---over the last hundred years or so---the last being kind of amusing.

1877: "Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914;"
1920 "Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth"
1969: "The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; "
1989: "The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century."


The WT is the "watchman" that is to warn all the people. This they are doing.
So, how they doin'?

Why don't you list what other religions have said about the end?
Because JWs are the reigning champs of prognostication, and because all their failed prophecies beg for attention.

I think that most religions have tried to guess when the end will come. All of them failed.
I actually don't recall any, so how about a couple or so "for instances."

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #42

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:04 pmclaims of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information.[/i] (Wikipedia)"
This is true, our claims are based on the bible, which reports a supernatural source of divine revelation ... GOD. All attempts to prove that Jehovahs Witnesses were not interpreting previously existing biblical prophecy have been demonstrated to be false. For example ...
For the DEBUNCKED attempt to try and establish JWs have issued "four new prophecies" in their 2000 issue of the Watchtower, see LINK below

viewtopic.php?p=1122593#p1122593
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #43

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:41 am
Miles wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:04 pmclaims of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information.[/i] (Wikipedia)"
This is true, our claims are based on the bible, which reports a supernatural source of divine revelation ... GOD. All attempts to prove that Jehovahs Witnesses were not interpreting previously existing biblical prophecy have been demonstrated to be false. For example ...
Doesn't matter what they claim the basis for their prophesy was, the fact remains that in 1884 the WT prophesied that

"Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914."

Of course the question remains: did this ever happen? Outside the likely biased opinions of Jehovah's Witnesses, the answer is "No."


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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #44

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:47 pmDoesn't matter what they claim the basis for their prophesy was {snip}
Jehovah's Witnesses have never made any "prophecies". Note the post below ...
Miles wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 10:23 pm
I came across the following piece in Wikipedia ...
"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. ..."
What is the difference between inspired revelation and biblical interpretation?
viewtopic.php?p=1045211#p1045211
For the already repeatedly DEBUNKED attempt to try and establish that Jehovah's Witnesses have made prophecies , see LINK below

viewtopic.php?p=1122593#p1122593



JW

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Have the Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed the role of divinely inspired PROPHETS?
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Do Jehovah's Witnesses declare their interpretation of bible prophecy "truth"?
viewtopic.php?p=1070627#p1070627
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #45

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:57 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:47 pmDoesn't matter what they claim the basis for their prophesy was {snip}
Jehovah's Witnesses have never made any "prophecies". Note the post below ...
Miles wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 10:23 pm
I came across the following piece in Wikipedia ...
"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. ..."
What is the difference between inspired revelation and biblical interpretation?
viewtopic.php?p=1045211#p1045211
For the already repeatedly DEBUNKED attempt to try and establish that Jehovah's Witnesses have made prophecies , see LINK below

viewtopic.php?p=1122593#p1122593
Sorry, but I fail to see the relevancy.

If you recall, I quoted Wikipedia's definition of "Prophecy" (post 41) "claims of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information."

To which you said (post 42) "This is true, . . . "

So, here we have a claim made by the WT in 1877 about the future,
"Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914;"

And from where I stand it certainly fits the definition of "prophecy" you agreed with.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #46

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:38 pm And from where I stand it certainly fits the definition of "prophecy" you agreed with.


I at no time agreed that the predictions or interpretations of bible passages made by Jehovahs Witnesses were inspired divine revelation. Thus, they were not prophecy.



PROPHECY, PREDICTION OR INTERPRETATION

Image
What is the difference between inspired revelation and biblical interpretation?
viewtopic.php?p=1045211#p1045211

What is the difference between a PREDICTION and A PROPHECY?
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Have the Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed the role of divinely inspired PROPHETS?
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Have Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed the role of in prophets?
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Did JWs confess in a 1968 article to being False Prophets?
viewtopic.php?p=1038819#p1038819

What are the SOURCES of the Prophecies JWs interpret?
viewtopic.php?p=1122593#p1122593
To learn more please go to other posts related to...

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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #47

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:44 pm
Miles wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:38 pm And from where I stand it certainly fits the definition of "prophecy" you agreed with.


I at no time agreed that the predictions or interpretations of bible passages made by Jehovahs Witnesses were inspired divine revelation. Thus, they were not prophecy.
As I pretty much said before. It doesn't matter what they, or you, claim the basis of their pronouncement was. If it's a "claim of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information, which you agreed with, then it qualifies as a prophecy. That you'd like to now narrow its definition so as to suit your agenda simply doesn't wash. The jig is up JW.

BUT just to review: O:)

I wrote:
"While I don't recall the WT ever saying "I/we prophesize . . . ." Or "I/we are prophets." its pronouncements, filled with "would"s, come across as prophesies: 'claims of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information. (Wikipedia)'"

The object of Wikipedia's definition being prophesies.

To which you said "This is true, . . ." meaning Wikipedia's definition is correct; that a prophecy is indeed a claim of what the future will be like, which is not based on any ordinary source of information. So, does the WT 1877 pronouncement that "Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914" fit the definition of "prophecy" that you agreed with? It sure does.

1. It's a claim
2. It's about the future
3. It is not based on any ordinary source of information

Now, you may not want to call it a duck, but it certainly looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. So I'm calling it a duck. Like it or not the WT did prophesize that in 1914 Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth. Not that it ever happened, but it was what they prophezied. :mrgreen:


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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #48

Post by Ross »

onewithhim wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 6:41 pm Especially when the WTS never has said that it is a prophet. No, not a prophet but just someone looking at the evidence and trying to alert people



"This was the test - the coming down of fire; and the fulfillment exactly on time has proved that Pastor Russell was one of God's great reformers and prophets." Watchtower 1919 Oct 1 p.297

"For an answer, people should listen to the plain preaching by the remnant prefigured by Jeremiah, for these preach to men the present-day fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecies. Who made them a prophet to speak with the authority that they claim? Well, who made Jeremiah a prophet?" Watchtower 1959 Jan 15 pp.39-41

"Those who do not read can hear, for God has on earth today a prophetlike organization, just as he did in the days of the early Christian congregation." Watchtower 1964 Oct 1 p.601

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses. Watchtower 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #49

Post by Ross »

Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:38 am
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 6:41 pm Especially when the WTS never has said that it is a prophet. No, not a prophet but just someone looking at the evidence and trying to alert people




the modern-day “prophet,” the spirit-begotten, anointed ones who are the nucleus of Jehovah’s witnesses today,... Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a “prophet” of Jehovah was among them... Jehovah is interested not only in the vindication of his own name but also in vindicating his “prophet." Watchtower 1972, 4/1, pp.197-200

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #50

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to Ross in post #49]

Rather than using information from 60 years ago, how about something more recent. Unlike other many other religions, we do make adjustments to our doctrine.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Rea ... -Prophets/

"Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.—Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6."


This how we know we are not prophets, because prophets don't make mistakes, we do. We got over it and we own it. But clearly the rest of the world hasn't. This whole thread is just pointing out what JWs have already known for years and give others a platform to dig up the past and so they can do some finger wagging so they can feel tall by cutting others down.

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