What About the Sea Creatures?

[Skeptical]

I know that JWs believe in a Paradise on Earth. And I know that some of the Bible verses that they base their beliefs on are Genesis 1:28-30 in conjunction with Isaiah 11:6-9 and Revelation 21:1-4. However, I would like to ask JWs and other Christians who have the belief in paradise earth: What about the sea creatures?

Because even in the Bible, the dangerous and ferocious creature Leviathan was created by God according to Psalm 104:24-26. Plus, according to science, there are other dangerous and ferocious creatures that God created such as sharks. But in all fairness, I would like to post this 2 minute and 8 seconds video, which puts sharks in the best light possible.



However, if that was too long for you, I have this 51 second video, which features characteristics that only a Creator God could create. (Hebrews 3:4 and Revelation 4:11)



Therefore, are the scriptures that mention total peace in the human kingdom and the animal kingdom only referring to land creatures? And do those verses exclude the sea creatures? Because I don't quite get it.

But here is another example of the electric eel in this 2 minute and 25 second video, even though there are many, many more dangerous and predatory sea creatures such as this.

[Skeptical]

DID GOD ORIGINALLY CREATE ANIMALS CARNIVORES TO BE DANGEROUS TO EACH OTHER?


The bible does not provide every detail about the land and sea creatures in the beginning, but there is every indication he did not. There is no indication of violence of any kind in the garden of Eden and even today, animals that are natural enemies can be raised to live peacefully together.

But that's not what jw.org says. And jw.org is considered 'food from God' according to JWs:

Consider the Falcon and the Eagle

Jehovah turned his attention to certain other birds. (Job 39:26-30) Falcons ‘soar up and spread their wings to the wind.’ Citing the peregrine falcon as the fastest-flying bird, The Guinness Book of Records says that it “reaches record speed levels when swooping from great heights during territorial displays, or when catching prey in midair.” This bird has reached a speed of 217 miles per hour [349 km/hr] at a 45-degree angle of descent!

Eagles have flown at speeds of over 80 miles per hour [130 km/hr]. Job compared the swift passing of life to the speed of an eagle searching for prey. (Job 9:25, 26) God gives us strength to go on, as if we were on the seemingly tireless wings of the soaring eagle. (Isaiah 40:31) In flight, the eagle takes advantage of columns of rising warm air called thermals. The bird circles within a thermal, which carries it higher and higher. When the eagle attains a certain height, it glides to the next thermal and can stay aloft for hours with a minimal expenditure of energy.

An eagle “builds its nest high up” on inaccessible heights, placing its young out of danger. Jehovah has made the eagle do this instinctively. And with God-given vision, “far into the distance [the eagle’s] eyes keep looking.” The ability rapidly to change the focus of its eyes enables an eagle to keep its prey or a carcass in sight during a long dive. An eagle may eat the carcasses of dead animals, so that “where the slain are, there it is.” This bird catches small animals and carries them to its young.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006045

[JehovahsWitness]

..why God created carnivorous animals with carnivorous digestive systems in the first place.

I don't necessarily believe he did.

Did God originally create animals to kill and eat each other?
viewtopic.php?p=1124287#p1124287

[JehovahsWitness]

An eagle “builds its nest high up” on inaccessible heights, placing its young out of danger. Jehovah has made the eagle do this instinctively.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006045

Yes, God gave animals the instinct to protect their young.

And with God-given vision, “far into the distance [the eagle’s] eyes keep looking.” The ability rapidly to change the focus of its eyes enables an eagle to keep its prey or a carcass in sight during a long dive.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006045

God gave eagle incredibly sharp vision; that they have subsequently used this ability to hunt prey.

To illustrate: If a doctor restores a patient's sight, they can use it to do many things. They can cross the road alone without danger for example. Now if they then go on to use that "doctor restored" to stalk a woman and kill her, can you say the doctor wanted that?

The Watchtower magazine makes no comment as to whether God originally created eagles digestive systems to be carnivorous nor does it comment on whether eagles were always birds of prey, only that He gave them sharp vision, which is presently used for that purpose.



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[Skeptical]

..why God created carnivorous animals with carnivorous digestive systems in the first place.

I don't necessarily believe he did.

So, how did carnivorous animals get digestive systems like that in the first place?

[Skeptical]

An eagle “builds its nest high up” on inaccessible heights, placing its young out of danger. Jehovah has made the eagle do this instinctively.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006045

Yes, God gave animals the instinct to protect their young.

And with God-given vision, “far into the distance [the eagle’s] eyes keep looking.” The ability rapidly to change the focus of its eyes enables an eagle to keep its prey or a carcass in sight during a long dive.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006045

God gave eagle incredibly sharp vision; that they have subsequently used this ability to hunt prey.

To illustrate: If a doctor restores a patient's sight, they can use it to do many things. They can cross the road alone without danger for example. Now if they then go on to use that "doctor restored" to stalk a woman and kill her, can you say the doctor wanted that?

The Watchtower magazine makes no comment as to whether God originally created eagles digestive systems to be carnivorous nor does it comment on whether eagles were always birds of prey, only that He gave them sharp vision, which is presently used for that purpose.



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Interesting fact about DOVES
viewtopic.php?p=985382#p985382

Ten interesting facts about nightjars
viewtopic.php?p=1038507#p1038507

Did God give EAGLES their keen eyesight?
viewtopic.php?p=1124379#p1124379

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

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So, is there a reason why some animals are equipped to the max with natural dangerous and lethal weapons being part of their bodies?

[Skeptical]

The Watchtower magazine makes no comment as to whether God originally created eagles digestive systems to be carnivorous nor does it comment on whether eagles were always birds of prey, only that He gave them sharp vision, which is presently used for that purpose.

So, does the watchtower say anything about anteaters. Or should we believe that God created their tongues for eating some sort of plant food?

5 Incredible Anteater Facts
The anteater has the longest tongue of any animal in relation to its body size.

The pygmy sloth is one of the anteater’s closest relatives, but their common ancestor is more than 55 million years old.

Their legs, which look like panda faces, are part of the giant anteater’s protective coloring. Baby anteaters have similar coloring, which allows the baby to “vanish” while making its mother look bigger.

The paws of all four species feature enormous, long, and sharp claws that require the animals to walk on their knuckles or wrists to avoid stabbing themselves.[/list]

https://a-z-animals.com/animals/anteate ... animal-text

Also, JehovahsWitness, you said in one of your posts that some verses in Genesis are symbolic and some are literal. Therefore, how do you know if the plant-food verses aren't symbolic? Because everything in nature basically testifies that animals are basically the way they are because of nature. Therefore, JWs' interpretation seems evidently wrong.

[Skeptical]

The Watchtower magazine makes no comment as to whether God originally created eagles digestive systems to be carnivorous nor does it comment on whether eagles were always birds of prey, only that He gave them sharp vision, which is presently used for that purpose.

Apparently, it is also silent about animal digestive systems in general:

Q4
How does the digestive system of a herbivore differ from a carnivore?
Most herbivores have several stomach chambers. They also have a comparatively longer digestive tract than carnivores. On the other hand, carnivores have a much simpler digestive system. They also have only one stomach chamber with a shorter digestive tract.

https://byjus.com/biology/difference-be ... ve%20tract.

Therefore, that is why I said that it was impossible for herbivore animals' digestive systems to have changed in the past 6000 years. Especially if there is no such thing as macro evolution. Therefore, according to Bible literalists' point of view, God would have had to have changed herbivore animals' digestive systems into carnivore animals' digestive systems. However, it seems as if there is no intellectual reasoning on this topic for JWs. Therefore, so much for Isaiah 1:18 that another JW cited in another thread.

[JehovahsWitness]

So, how did carnivorous animals get digestive systems like that in the first place?

Well its a fact that animals to adapt to their environment, and most mamals and large creatures are herbivores. So it might be that carnivores are the anomalies with systems that simply adapted to their changed situation. I don't think anyone can be dogmatic about what the animal kingdom was like as it first appeared, and I'm certainly not claiming to know but the ability of ecosystem to find balance by adapting to change and for animals to die off or adapt is an observable phenomenon.

So, is there a reason why some animals are equipped to the max with natural dangerous and lethal weapons being part of their bodies?

Most are as a defence against potential attack. Presently , species have to adapt or die, so evidently they have done so in most ingenious ways. Whose to say if that would continue to be the case if the threat were removed.

should we believe that God created their [anteaters] tongues for eating some sort of plant food?

All tongues to the best of my knowledge assist in eating, I should think that the anteater tongue is specially adapted to eat ants. Whether their predecessors ate ants, little hard to reach seeds or grasses , I cannot say. I don't see why anteaters cannot grow longer tongues within a short period of time, if Darwin finches can grow longer beaks .

... everything in nature basically testifies that animals are basically the way they are because of nature.

If you mean nature as in their natural environment , I would agree. But by the same premise: change the environment and change the animal.

...it was impossible for herbivore animals' digestive systems to have changed in the past 6000 years.

I don't believe one can be dogmatic on the question. The bible is silent about what internal systems most animals had in the first place; so we can not be dogmatic about how quickly those digestive systems might have changed.

[JehovahsWitness]

how do you know if the plant-food verses aren't symbolic?

Because I believe Adam and Eve were real people and needed food to survive.

Since it was many hundreds of years before God gave humans the right to kill and eat animals, they would have needed a real plant based diet to live. So when God said they could eat from the fruit trees in the garden of Eden, I think there's good reaon to conclude the foods must have been literal food not symbolic food.

[Skeptical]

So, how did carnivorous animals get digestive systems like that in the first place?

Well its a fact that animals to adapt to their environment, and most mamals and large creatures are herbivores. So it might be that carnivores are the anomalies with systems that simply adapted to their changed situation. I don't think anyone can be dogmatic about what the animal kingdom was like as it first appeared, and I'm certainly not claiming to know but the ability of ecosystem to find balance by adapting to change and for animals to die off or adapt is an observable phenomenon.

But that would take surgery, not adaptation to make a change like that. Because I have never heard of such an extreme change like that occurring in nature. However, I do see how convenient it is claim that an adaptation like that exists in order to support one's faith.

So, is there a reason why some animals are equipped to the max with natural dangerous and lethal weapons being part of their bodies?

Most are as a defence against potential attack.

Potential attack by what? Because I thought that according to your belief, God originally created everything to be safe and to be at peace with all other things and creatures. Therefore, your answer doesn't make sense.

Presently , species have to adapt or die, so evidently they have done so in most ingenious ways. Whose to say if that would continue to be the case if the threat were removed.

No insult intended, but common sense would say that the sharp and dangerous weapons that exist as being part of animals' make-up are too integral as being what makes a particular animal, that particular animal. And I'm not going to do it now, but all one has to do is look up those characteristics of animals in order to be able to see how those characteristics are too fundamental to what that animal is. Such as the fast-running speeds of wolves and big cats. But fast-running speeds for what? Also, the way that a snake is designed with their jaws and how they eat:

Unlike a mammalian jaw that is built for brute force, a snake's is rigged with tendons, muscles, and ligaments that give the jaw a gymnast's flexibility. [Rats Are Ticklish! Cats Can Bark! 9 Weird Animal Facts ]

The jaws do not dislocate, however.

"One of the enduring myths about snake feeding mechanisms is the idea that the jaws detach," explained Patrick T. Gregory, a biology professor at the University of Victoria. "In fact, they stay connected all the time."

The two lower jaws move independently of one another (see image), Gregory said. The quadrate bone is not rigidly attached to the skull, but articulates with the skull at one end and is therefore freely moving.

"The two mandibles are not joined at the front by a rigid symphysis, as ours are, but by an elastic ligament that allows them to spread apart," Gregory said.

Flaunting proper table manners, a snake takes its time muscling food down its throat, walking its skull over dinner and slathering it with saliva sauce.
https://www.livescience.com/32096-how-d ... imals.html

should we believe that God created their [anteaters] tongues for eating some sort of plant food?

All tongues to the best of my knowledge assist in eating, I should think that the anteater tongue is specially adapted to eat ants. Whether their predecessors ate ants, little hard to reach seeds or grasses , I cannot say. I don't see why anteaters cannot grow longer tongues within a short period of time, if Darwin finches can grow longer beaks .

Okay... I'm through with that.

... everything in nature basically testifies that animals are basically the way they are because of nature.

If you mean nature as in their natural environment , I would agree. But by the same premise: change the environment and change the animal.

...it was impossible for herbivore animals' digestive systems to have changed in the past 6000 years.

I don't believe one can be dogmatic on the question. The bible is silent about what internal systems most animals had in the first place; so we can not be dogmatic about how quickly those digestive systems might have changed.

Well, okay, here's a better question: If killing animals and eating meat is such a bad thing, then why did God change his own laws and his own standards as found in Genesis 9:3? Because I remember seeing a video on YouTube where one of the governing body said that God doesn't come down to our (humans) standards, but we must come up to his. However, allowing meat eating and fornication and multiple wives for the Israelites looks like God had to come down to human standard. Even Jesus said so about ancient Israel's multiple wife situation where God had to lower his standards because of the hardness of men's hearts.