Jehovah's Witnesses Bible

[Ross]

Much debate has taken place over the change the Jehovah's Witnesses made to John 1:1 rendering GOD as 'a god'. Virtually all references made to the Divinity of Jesus Christ in the NWT of the Greek Scriptures included adjustments to the literal rendering of the Koine' Greek to English, with the notable exception of John 20:28.

This translation of the Greek Scriptures was performed in secret by a Translation Committee led by the President and Vice President without the knowledge of the Governing Body who had no option but to accept this once it was revealed, as back then the Governing Body had little power.

After this they produced the Hebrew Scriptures, and It didn't take long for them to carry out similar unfaithful translation.

Almost every Bible ever written translates the second part of Genesis 1:2 as it appears to us in the Hebrew Masoretic Text:

"And The Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters"

Jehovah's Witnesses assert that the Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, is a none intelligent, none personal form of Gods power, likened in their literature to electricity that makes things work or happen.

Their official description and interpretation of the Holy Spirit is 'Gods active force'.

Genesis 1:2 reads in the New World Translation:

" and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."

Is this not the most blatant insertion of pre conceived doctrine into scripture you have ever seen?

[Ross]

His 'fingers' His 'hands' His 'active force'. It's trying to describe something in human terms that we can't even begin to truly understand how God's power works. To just say 'spirit' or 'wind' doesn't make a good word picture of what was happening on the Earth as it was being created. I don't understand why Gen 1:2 is being cherry picked for proof-texting the trinity anyway.

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

[2timothy316]

His 'fingers' His 'hands' His 'active force'. It's trying to describe something in human terms that we can't even begin to truly understand how God's power works. To just say 'spirit' or 'wind' doesn't make a good word picture of what was happening on the Earth as it was being created. I don't understand why Gen 1:2 is being cherry picked for proof-texting the trinity anyway.

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

JWs were not the first to make note that spirit at Genesis 1:2 as speaking more than just a spirit. You'd know that, but apparently you don't read my posts. You main agenda is pushing anti-JW propaganda rather than directly addressing my replies. How weak and boring.

[Ross]

Considering your comment about the NWT, it is actually the best version out there, and Professor Jason BeDuhn said as much in his excellent, non-theologically bent, book Truth in Translation. (He says that the New American Bible is the next best.) I have compared many versions, and I can see that the NWT is spot on. It includes "YHWH" (Jehovah) in every place it appears in the original Hebrew text and renders all the hot-spots of argument according to rules of grammar and context.

It's wonderful for you that one Biblical authority out of hundreds likes your translation.

I too have done much research on the NWT. and I would say that where verses do not enter into the topic of Divinity, it is very close to interlinears, where much of it was translated from.

It's interesting that people find fault with JWs, thinking that we have "our own Bible," structured as to our whim, but we didn't need another Bible to show our understanding of Scripture.

Then why do you think it was done and in secret?

[Ross]

JWs were not the first to make note that spirit at Genesis 1:2 as speaking more than just a spirit. You'd know that, but apparently you don't read my posts. You main agenda is pushing anti-JW propaganda rather than directly addressing my replies. How weak and boring.

Anyone reading this thread can observe that I have read your posts and answered all or almost all of your questions and replies.

What have I failed to address in your comments?

And Genesis 1:2 tells us more about the Spirit of God. Should we examine the verse more, rather than changing what it says?

[2timothy316]

JWs were not the first to make note that spirit at Genesis 1:2 as speaking more than just a spirit. You'd know that, but apparently you don't read my posts. You main agenda is pushing anti-JW propaganda rather than directly addressing my replies. How weak and boring.

Anyone reading this thread can observe that I have read your posts and answered all or almost all of your questions and replies.

What have I failed to address in your comments?

And Genesis 1:2 tells us more about the Spirit of God. Should we examine the verse more, rather than changing what it says?

Perhaps rather than just giving us your personal disapproval. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong. Perhaps you can show a scholarly reason why 'active force' can't be used? Here some scholarly reasons why it can....again....



"In the New Testament there is no direct suggestion of the Trinity. The Spirit is conceived as an impersonal power by which God effects his will through Christ." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, p. 344, Virgilius Ferm, 1945 ed

"The Spirit of God is the vital power which belongs to the Divine Being, and is seen to be operative in the world and in men. It is the Divine Energy which is the origin of all created life, especially of human existence and the faculties of human nature." Swete, The Holy Spirit in the New Testament (1909), page 2.

"There is little to commend "a mighty wind" (NEB, Speiser, von Rad); in the relatively few passages where "God" is used as a superlative, the context usually makes it clear. The sense is excellently given by "the power of God" (GNB)." A Bible Commentary for Today, General Editor G. C. D. Howley (1973), page 135.

"There is apparent a development in the direction of hypostatization of the Spirit, not in the sense that it is conceived as a person but as a substantial source of force and activity. It is the creative force of Yahweh (Gn. 1:2; Jb 33:5)" Dictionary of the Bible, McKenzie (1965), page 841.

"The Spirit brooding over the primeval waters (Gn. 1:2) and creating man (Gn. 2:7), the Spirit who garnishes the heavens (Jb 26:13), sustains animal life and renews the face of the earth (Ps. 54:30), is the ruah ('breath,' 'wind') of God, the outgoing divine energy and power." The New Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas (1962), page 531.

Good News Bible: " The raging ocean that covered everything was engulfed in total darkness, and the power of God was moving over the water."

[Miles]

Faithfully and accurately based on who's faith and standards?

Faithfully and accurately meaning true to what the Masoretic text says.

I think the NWT does that.

Really!


The Masoretic text:

....A Hebrew - English Bible
According to the Masoretic Text
.....and the JPS 1917 Edition
page 1
-------------------------------------------------------

................... Genesis Chapter 1 בְּרֵאשִׁית

א בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

ב וְהָאָרֶץ, הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ, וְחֹשֶׁךְ, עַל-פְּנֵי תְהוֹם; וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים, מְרַחֶפֶת עַל-פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם.
2 Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.
page 2 - Genesis 1:1-2

The New World Translation (2013 Revision)

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.+ 2 Now the earth was formless and desolate,* and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep,*+ and God’s active force*+ was moving about over the surface of the waters.+

* Footnote
Or “God’s spirit.”

.

[Ross]

Perhaps rather than just giving us your personal disapproval. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong. Perhaps you can show a scholarly reason why 'active force' can't be used?

It doesn't translate from the Hebrew Text.

[onewithhim]

His 'fingers' His 'hands' His 'active force'. It's trying to describe something in human terms that we can't even begin to truly understand how God's power works. To just say 'spirit' or 'wind' doesn't make a good word picture of what was happening on the Earth as it was being created. I don't understand why Gen 1:2 is being cherry picked for proof-texting the trinity anyway.

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

You need to do a lot more research before you continue to denigrate JWs and the NWT. Your problems with them are fatuous and destructive to peace and truth. BTW, I John 5:7 has been taken out of many versions of the Bible because scholars know it is spurious. No one is cherry picking anything here. We are commenting with the spirit of truth. (John 4:23)

[Miles]

His 'fingers' His 'hands' His 'active force'. It's trying to describe something in human terms that we can't even begin to truly understand how God's power works. To just say 'spirit' or 'wind' doesn't make a good word picture of what was happening on the Earth as it was being created. I don't understand why Gen 1:2 is being cherry picked for proof-texting the trinity anyway.

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

You need to do a lot more research before you continue to denigrate JWs and the NWT. Your problems with them are fatuous and destructive to peace and truth. BTW, I John 5:7 has been taken out of many versions of the Bible because scholars know it is spurious. No one is cherry picking anything here. We are commenting with the spirit of truth. (John 4:23)

Really??

Exactly what Bibles are you thinking of that removed the verse from their versions? I ask because from just one source alone I counted 62 Bibles that currently include I John 5:7. Plus the New World Translation (2013 Revision) Bible.

I John 5:7 (NWT)
7 For there are three witness bearers:

.

[2timothy316]

Perhaps rather than just giving us your personal disapproval. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong. Perhaps you can show a scholarly reason why 'active force' can't be used?

It doesn't translate from the Hebrew Text.

It doesn't to you, but for REAL language translators there is more to it than just translating the Bible word for word from some interlinear translation. This because the word spirit as well as many other words can mean so many different things in Hebrew and Greek. The context determines its actual meaning of many of the words in a language. This includes Hebrew.

Even in English it takes context to understand the meaning of a word. Look at all the different meanings for the word spirit in English. I could say I drank a tasty spirit yesterday with my steak dinner. But I could replace spirit with scotch. I can also say, my spirits are down. I could replace spirit with, 'demeanor'. Note the context around the word spirit determines its meaning and with the changes the idea I'm trying to convey is more accurate.

If you can understand this concept then you can understand why the word spirit at Gen 1:2 can mean more than just spirit. Of course I don't expect you to except this as your devotion to your dogma will not allow it. Translators of the NWT and the Good News translation are not hindered by your dogma. Also, don't think I didn't notice that you're still not acknowledging the quotes from past scholars concerning Gen 1:2 that I quoted you and that you have no real response other than a single sentence which is not a strong enough argument to add to the debate, especially since you're not a REAL translator. You're just a plain person like me, except I actually seek out people smarter than me on a subject to gather information then make a choice based on that information. Not you though, for you it all depends on your personal opinion and religious dogma.