Is being Transgender a choice?

[AgnosticBoy]

I'm of the opinion that gender expression is a result of social conditioning. I know I used the word "choice" in the title, but that's only because people tend to associate behavior that can be changed or conditioned as being a "choice" (borrowing from the debate on born this way vs. choice).

In this thread, I want to focus on being transgender. Based on my above opinion, I also believe that being transgender is also a result of social conditioning (i.e. childhood experiences, what they learn from society, etc). If I'm right then I think that the recent focus on transgenderism in the media, in Hollywood, in schools, could lead some children to become transgender. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I also bring these points up because when some parents complain about their kids learning about transgenderism in school, the reaction is that it won't impact (some say "groom" ) the child into becoming transgender. If my view is correct, I think the pro-trans crowd should acknowledge that it can potentially influence children AND there's nothing wrong with that.

For Debate
1. Is being transgender a result of social conditioning?
2. Edit: Removed. Teaching kids about gender identity can be a separate thread.

[oldbadger]

Now that is some irony!
Your words: "Don't imagine that I would support your bigoted neighbour in anything that they say, CB.

I don't think so..... no irony there, after all, you say something similar yourself:
I'm all for trans people and the elderly to be allowed to speak as they see fit (exceptions to every rule).

And then you show words that I never spoke........... why do you do that?
"Leave trans people alone!"
"Let's take official action against the elderly neighbor that uses the wrong pronouns."
(Oh the irony)

[oldbadger]

NO, and I would never treat a trans person the way trans activists treat people that they perceive to have opinions contrary to their own!

I do. The activists want more than that. They want their ideology to govern every aspect of our lives. It's not enough that we just have acceptance, society must be totally molded to meet the needs of a few individuals.

But can you actually show me an example of activists treating anti-trans and transphobe people badly?

Why don't we see demands to affirm people suffering from other mental disorders such as anorexia? Because we understand that those people are mistaken in their belief.

There are many reasons why people can become anorexics and bulimics, please don't mark them all as 'mentally disordered'.

Just because people believe they are in the wrong body or are the wrong sex doesn't mean that they actually are. If some simply want to live as the opposite sex fair enough, but there also has to be trade-off. You can't have your cake and eat it too. For example, genetic women should have certain entitlements that trans women do not because no matter how loudly one may scream the mantra, men cannot be women.

Now that's interesting........... people who try to transfer in gender later and have characteristics of their original sex, maybe because they were banned from taking early puberty blockers, these people won't be allowed to compete in some physical sports, for example. Let's be more careful about whom we withhold puberty blockers from, eh?.

We are no longer allowed to express our opinions and are also facing compelled speech legislation.

Can you show me an actual incident where 'speech legislation' either convicted or found against a person speaking out their opinion?
You seem to manage quite well yourself without any trouble, so where exactly are you?
I am in Kent, UK, and we can speak freely here so long as we don't incite crimes or hate followings......... so where are you referring to?

[Clownboat]

I don't think so..... no irony there, after all, you say something similar yourself:
I'm all for trans people and the elderly to be allowed to speak as they see fit (exceptions to every rule).

It is against the law to yell bomb in an airport. That is what I'm talking about. Not sending grandma to the clink if she uses pronouns incorrectly.
You cannot be taken seriously if you equate the airport scenario with grandma refusing to call her biological male neighbor a Ma'am.

And then you show words that I never spoke........... why do you do that?
"Leave trans people alone!"

Post 148: "Well maybe you should leave them alone to be who they want to be?"

"Let's take official action against the elderly neighbor that uses the wrong pronouns."

Post 142: "If they spread mucky ideas about you (or any) around the neighbourhood and you find that your home, grounds or lifestyle are being interfered with in any way because of his/her nasty mouth then you'll find me supporting some official action against them ...for sure."

Readers, I suspect that oldbadger is pretending that we are no longer talking about the elderly grandma that uses the wrong pronouns that we have been talking about for many posts now.

Copy/paste to save time: "Your position isn't consistent and is therefore hard to agree with."

[oldbadger]

Readers, I suspect that oldbadger is pretending that we are no longer talking about the elderly grandma that uses the wrong pronouns that we have been talking about for many posts now.

You see?.... I thought, 'This post is just a wind- up, so no need to answer every point'.
And then, sure as can be, we can see that you were writing to everybody else!

[brunumb]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #154]

Konstantin Kisin - How Terrible Ideas Take Over Society

[Clownboat]

Readers, I suspect that oldbadger is pretending that we are no longer talking about the elderly grandma that uses the wrong pronouns that we have been talking about for many posts now.

You see?.... I thought, 'This post is just a wind- up, so no need to answer every point'.
And then, sure as can be, we can see that you were writing to everybody else!

Should I make more points for you to ignore or show you where you said what you claim you didn't say? Nah, I'll address the readers that can see what is taking place right in front of them.

- You still fail to acknowledge that the old lady scenario is one where the old lady is using the wrong pronouns.
- I clarified the 'exceptions to every rule' that seemed to confuse you earlier. You failed to address it or acknowledge it.
- You accused me of quoting words from you that you never used, but you did. When I showed you your words and the posts you used them in, you failed to address them or even acknowledge your words.

And you protest that I'm beginning to have a discussion with the readers here in place of yourself!
What would you expect?

Copy/paste to save time: "Your position isn't consistent and is therefore hard to agree with."

[oldbadger]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #154]

Konstantin Kisin - How Terrible Ideas Take Over Society

Another uninformed person who hangs out on 'triggernometry'.

I listened for about 25 seconds and as soon as he mentioned that police in the UK do not carry guns I switched off.
Uninformed.

[oldbadger]

Readers, I suspect that oldbadger is pretending that we are no longer talking about the elderly grandma that uses the wrong pronouns that we have been talking about for many posts now.

You see?.... I thought, 'This post is just a wind- up, so no need to answer every point'.
And then, sure as can be, we can see that you were writing to everybody else!

Should I make more points for you to ignore or show you where you said what you claim you didn't say? Nah, I'll address the readers that can see what is taking place right in front of them.

Well then....you need to see who answers you, yes?

[brunumb]

I listened for about 25 seconds ........

There is nothing like a closed mind, except maybe one that has been ideologically captured.

One can uphold the value and dignity of trans identifying people without sacrificing the truth. Gad Saad has a knack of getting to the crux of the issue. This is for those who still have an open mind.

Anthropologists Reject the Hateful & Corrosive Notion of Two Biological Sexes (THE SAAD TRUTH_1598)



His comment at 25:33 is a great summation.

[LittleNipper]

ALL CHOICES ARE A CHOICE. Smoking, drinking, taking a shower, selecting clothing, and having sex are all CHOICES. When and where one decides to do things are CHOICES. This isn't rocket science ---- and even that is a CHOICE...