Jehovah's Witnesses Bible

[Ross]

Much debate has taken place over the change the Jehovah's Witnesses made to John 1:1 rendering GOD as 'a god'. Virtually all references made to the Divinity of Jesus Christ in the NWT of the Greek Scriptures included adjustments to the literal rendering of the Koine' Greek to English, with the notable exception of John 20:28.

This translation of the Greek Scriptures was performed in secret by a Translation Committee led by the President and Vice President without the knowledge of the Governing Body who had no option but to accept this once it was revealed, as back then the Governing Body had little power.

After this they produced the Hebrew Scriptures, and It didn't take long for them to carry out similar unfaithful translation.

Almost every Bible ever written translates the second part of Genesis 1:2 as it appears to us in the Hebrew Masoretic Text:

"And The Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters"

Jehovah's Witnesses assert that the Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, is a none intelligent, none personal form of Gods power, likened in their literature to electricity that makes things work or happen.

Their official description and interpretation of the Holy Spirit is 'Gods active force'.

Genesis 1:2 reads in the New World Translation:

" and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."

Is this not the most blatant insertion of pre conceived doctrine into scripture you have ever seen?

[onewithhim]

His 'fingers' His 'hands' His 'active force'. It's trying to describe something in human terms that we can't even begin to truly understand how God's power works. To just say 'spirit' or 'wind' doesn't make a good word picture of what was happening on the Earth as it was being created. I don't understand why Gen 1:2 is being cherry picked for proof-texting the trinity anyway.

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

You need to do a lot more research before you continue to denigrate JWs and the NWT. Your problems with them are fatuous and destructive to peace and truth. BTW, I John 5:7 has been taken out of many versions of the Bible because scholars know it is spurious. No one is cherry picking anything here. We are commenting with the spirit of truth. (John 4:23)

Really??

Exactly what Bibles are you thinking of that removed the verse from their versions? I ask because from just one source alone I counted 62 Bibles that currently include I John 5:7. Plus the New World Translation (2013 Revision) Bible.

I John 5:7 (NWT)
7 For there are three witness bearers:

.

I picked up three sources of what I was talking about, and this is what I see:

"7)For there are three that testify: 8)the Spirit and the water and the blood: and the three are in agreement." New American Standard Bible

"7)So we have a threefold testimony, 8)from the spirit, the water and the blood, and all three agree." 21st Century New Testament

"7)For there are three witness bearers, 8)the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement." New World Translation

I could go on. This rendering is in agreement with the Greek texts by C. Tischendorf (1872); Westcott and Hort (1881); Augustinus (1964); Jose Maria Bover (1968); United Bible Societies (1975); Nestle-Aland (1979). After "witness bearers" the cursive mss No 61 (16th century) and no.629 (in Latin and Greek, 14th to 15th century) and Vg add the words: "in heaven, the Father the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one." So there is nothing to prove a trinity where there are three personages of equal power and godship.

Only GOD can forgive sin. Is this a true or false statement?

Ultimately it is God who can forgive sins, but also the Person (His Son) that He designates to forgive sins. God, YHWH, has designated many things for the Son to do. Still, the power and authority given comes from YHWH. The Son could do nothing without the Father's permission and His designations.

"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing: for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.'" (John 5:19, NASB)

John 5:19 is true because our LORD JESUS CHRIST is one with HIS FATHER. Revelation 4:8
“'Holy, holy, holy. is the Lord God Almighty,'. who was, and is, and is to come.

The number three biblically represents divine wholeness, completeness and perfection. If ever there were a desire to highlight an idea, thought, event or noteworthy figure in the Bible for their prominence, the number three was used to put a divine stamp of completion or fulfillment on the subject.

The number three signifies emphasis, strength or intensity.

Read:
Ec 4:12 - Strength
Mt 26:34, 75; Joh 21:15-17 - asking Peter three time if he loved to show emphasis on how much Peter loved Jesus
Ac 10:1-16, 28-35, 47, 48 - God showing Peter a vision three times in a row to show the intensity of God impartiality.
Isa 6:3; Re 4:8 - Showing the intensity of God's holiness
Eze 21:27 - Shows emphatically that no kings would sit on the throne in Jerusalem until the Messiah came.
Re 8:13 - Intensity of the turmoil said to come upon the Earth.

Seven is the number that signifies completeness.
Read:
Ex 20:10 On the seventh day God rested after he completed creating the earth and set the Sabbath according to this to complete a week.
Ps 12:6 - Seven is shown in poetic scriptures to show purity, completeness and perfection.

To tie everything that has to do with three to a trinity is a mad-made tradition.

Which is exactly what the trinity signifies. Before GOD made anything, HE was still total LOVE because the three loved each other to perfection and eternally...

The Trinity is just like pagan trinities. It is designed to compliment the myriads of pagan trinities, so the number three does not always mean "holy." Indeed, also, the number of the wild beast in Revelation is 666---the number "6" repeated three times. Read your history books and see that the Trinity wasn't even solid doctrine until after the 4th century A.D. There is no man-made tradition concerning the denigrating of the Trinity. The Trinity itself is a man-made tradition.

[Ross]

Jews didn't believe Jehovah was part of a trinity.

Folks on here who study the Bible don't believe that Jehovah was part of a Trinity either.

Just saying this doesn't prove anything. Scriptures?

I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.'

Scriptures?

[2timothy316]

Jews didn't believe Jehovah was part of a trinity.

Folks on here who study the Bible don't believe that Jehovah was part of a Trinity either.

Just saying this doesn't prove anything. Scriptures?

I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.'

Scriptures?

It is those that believe in the trinity that think that Jehovah is Jesus.
https://rsc.byu.edu/jesus-christ-son-go ... hovah-yhwh
Or do you believe in a different type of trinity? If so, explain.

[LittleNipper]

It isn't, and this wasn't the purpose of my thread. But that is why your translators added spurious words that no one else has ever translated from the Hebrew. It's almost as bad as your KJV example of 1st John 5:7.

This has been cherry picked to demonstrate that your official Jehovah's Witness doctrine on the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, was injected into the second verse of the Bible.

God's own words from the Hebrew manuscripts: 'The Spirit of God' don't give a good enough picture of your faith's beliefs, so they had to be changed and corrected.

You need to do a lot more research before you continue to denigrate JWs and the NWT. Your problems with them are fatuous and destructive to peace and truth. BTW, I John 5:7 has been taken out of many versions of the Bible because scholars know it is spurious. No one is cherry picking anything here. We are commenting with the spirit of truth. (John 4:23)

Really??

Exactly what Bibles are you thinking of that removed the verse from their versions? I ask because from just one source alone I counted 62 Bibles that currently include I John 5:7. Plus the New World Translation (2013 Revision) Bible.

I John 5:7 (NWT)
7 For there are three witness bearers:

.

I picked up three sources of what I was talking about, and this is what I see:

"7)For there are three that testify: 8)the Spirit and the water and the blood: and the three are in agreement." New American Standard Bible

"7)So we have a threefold testimony, 8)from the spirit, the water and the blood, and all three agree." 21st Century New Testament

"7)For there are three witness bearers, 8)the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement." New World Translation

I could go on. This rendering is in agreement with the Greek texts by C. Tischendorf (1872); Westcott and Hort (1881); Augustinus (1964); Jose Maria Bover (1968); United Bible Societies (1975); Nestle-Aland (1979). After "witness bearers" the cursive mss No 61 (16th century) and no.629 (in Latin and Greek, 14th to 15th century) and Vg add the words: "in heaven, the Father the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one." So there is nothing to prove a trinity where there are three personages of equal power and godship.

Only GOD can forgive sin. Is this a true or false statement?

Ultimately it is God who can forgive sins, but also the Person (His Son) that He designates to forgive sins. God, YHWH, has designated many things for the Son to do. Still, the power and authority given comes from YHWH. The Son could do nothing without the Father's permission and His designations.

"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of himself, unless it is something he sees the Father doing: for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.'" (John 5:19, NASB)

John 5:19 is true because our LORD JESUS CHRIST is one with HIS FATHER. Revelation 4:8
“'Holy, holy, holy. is the Lord God Almighty,'. who was, and is, and is to come.

The number three biblically represents divine wholeness, completeness and perfection. If ever there were a desire to highlight an idea, thought, event or noteworthy figure in the Bible for their prominence, the number three was used to put a divine stamp of completion or fulfillment on the subject.

The number three signifies emphasis, strength or intensity.

Read:
Ec 4:12 - Strength
Mt 26:34, 75; Joh 21:15-17 - asking Peter three time if he loved to show emphasis on how much Peter loved Jesus
Ac 10:1-16, 28-35, 47, 48 - God showing Peter a vision three times in a row to show the intensity of God impartiality.
Isa 6:3; Re 4:8 - Showing the intensity of God's holiness
Eze 21:27 - Shows emphatically that no kings would sit on the throne in Jerusalem until the Messiah came.
Re 8:13 - Intensity of the turmoil said to come upon the Earth.

Seven is the number that signifies completeness.
Read:
Ex 20:10 On the seventh day God rested after he completed creating the earth and set the Sabbath according to this to complete a week.
Ps 12:6 - Seven is shown in poetic scriptures to show purity, completeness and perfection.

To tie everything that has to do with three to a trinity is a mad-made tradition.

Which is exactly what the trinity signifies. Before GOD made anything, HE was still total LOVE because the three loved each other to perfection and eternally...

The Trinity is just like pagan trinities. It is designed to compliment the myriads of pagan trinities, so the number three does not always mean "holy." Indeed, also, the number of the wild beast in Revelation is 666---the number "6" repeated three times. Read your history books and see that the Trinity wasn't even solid doctrine until after the 4th century A.D. There is no man-made tradition concerning the denigrating of the Trinity. The Trinity itself is a man-made tradition.

There are no pagan trinities. There is just their belief in a multitude of human like gods, and not ONE GOD that is united and eternal.

[Ross]

Jews didn't believe Jehovah was part of a trinity.

Folks on here who study the Bible don't believe that Jehovah was part of a Trinity either.

Just saying this doesn't prove anything. Scriptures?

I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.'

Scriptures?

It is those that believe in the trinity that think that Jehovah is Jesus.
https://rsc.byu.edu/jesus-christ-son-go ... hovah-yhwh
Or do you believe in a different type of trinity? If so, explain.

It is Jehovah's Witnesses who think Jesus is called Michael, and believe only the Father is YHWH
Trinitarians believe that YHWH is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

[2timothy316]

Jews didn't believe Jehovah was part of a trinity.

Folks on here who study the Bible don't believe that Jehovah was part of a Trinity either.

Just saying this doesn't prove anything. Scriptures?

I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.'

Scriptures?

It is those that believe in the trinity that think that Jehovah is Jesus.
https://rsc.byu.edu/jesus-christ-son-go ... hovah-yhwh
Or do you believe in a different type of trinity? If so, explain.

It is Jehovah's Witnesses who think Jesus is called Michael, and believe only the Father is YHWH
Trinitarians believe that YHWH is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

[Tcg]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Matthew 20:28 states the following: "even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Are you sure this is the reference you intended?


Tcg

[Ross]

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

Firstly Timothy, I have never actually claimed to be a Trinitarian. I am a lifelong student of the Bible (with a 28 year gap period). I have argued for and against the Trinity over the years.

'Is Jesus Jehovah?'
Well, you Timothy, and others in your movement are programmed to see only the Father, the God who has always been invisible to man, as 'Jehovah.' You cannot comprehend anything or anyone else being this 'Jehovah'. I don't like the word as it has become adopted (by the JW faith) into a specific meaning that I do not believe is Biblical.

Is Jesus YHWH? I believe the Bible reveals this, Yes. But part of YHWH.
Is YHWH Jesus. I think the Bible answers yes. But a part of YHWH
Is The Father Jesus? No, but they are part of the one God, I see in the scriptures.

Jehovah or more correctly YHWH cannot be part of a Trinity if He is the Trinity.

Your entire confusion lies with your indoctrination that YHWH (JEHOVAH) cannot be anything other than The Father.

[Ross]

Matthew 20:28 declares that The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit have but one name. What do you think about that?

Its not what I think.....

Are you able to answer this civil question?

[2timothy316]

Its not what I think but what trinity you believe in. Do you agree with the trinitarian in the linked article that says that Jehovah is Jesus? I want to figure out if all trinitarians have the same doctrine. Right now, it doesn't seem so, comparing what you say with what the trinitarian said in his article. After all it was you said that, "I am not aware of any theological concept that states ' Jehovah was part of a Trinity.' Well, I have made you aware that there are trinitarians that believe Jehovah is part of the trinity by saying Jehovah is Jesus. Or Jesus not part of the trinity? Or is your fellow trinitarian wrong?

Firstly Timothy, I have never actually claimed to be a Trinitarian.

Good for you!
So you're of the belief that Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit are the same person.