Could the Triune God create someone like himself?

[Dimmesdale]

Could the God of Christianity, a Trinity, in principle be capable of creating a second God like or exactly like himself? This would be different than other limits on his creative ability that are logically absurd/self-refuting (a square circle, etc). At first glance, there doesn't seem to be any incoherence. But would there be a similar condition, of absurdity, preventing the god from creating someone just like him?

This was just something on my mind. Looking forward to responses.

P.S.,

I do understand of course that the second God would by definition not be eternal as the first. But this one condition doesn't seem to touch upon the essential QUALITY of the second God, which is what I am interested in; that in all other aspects he would be a virtual facsimile of the first.... Feel free however to bring up this condition in your argument if you think it relevant though.

[Dimmesdale]

I suppose you could say that God is necessarily self-sustaining -- that he has no other source of sustenance possible. That is, prior to all things existing, God alone is, and this not in a temporal sense (as there is no time yet) but in a strictly logical sense. So logically God needs an infinite self-sustaining source, namely Himself. And so he cannot have any other source. For an alien source would suppose a BREAK in his infinite self-sustenance from eternity.... And since God is infinite, this break would be an impediment to his infinite self-sustenance. And thus he could not be, because he could never come to be.

[Dimmesdale]

In other words, just as the universe is not co-eternal with God, but had a point of origination (albeit prior to time -- with time as it were....) dependent on the reflective choice and deliberation of eternal God, so too there could be no competitor God to exist co-eternal with God. For this would be to force the god onto God, force his hand as it were. As human beings made in the image of God we similarly have the ability to deliberate and come to a choice, albeit in time, and not in eternity. But the process, in logical succession, is nevertheless the same in God and hence, once more, there could be no secondary God co-eternal with the first, and, hence, there could be no eternal sustenance of the second God rooted from all eternity, and, hence, properly partaking of the true nature of Infinity.

[Dimmesdale]

In Sum:

God is the Original Source of Himself. Had he any other source, there would be a Deliberative Logical Break in His Infinite Origination -- defined as a Breakthrough Point in Time.... Hence God cannot be the source of a secondary "God" just like Himself. He is Original, and thus, the Original Unique.

[Purple Knight]

If he did he would no longer be all-powerful. One would have to answer the hypothetical question of whose thing gets done if there is a dispute and they attempt to do oppositely. As you can see, any answer except the second one being inferior in power negates the first one's absolute power. But this isn't a tongue-twister or an artefact of language like asking him if he can make a rock so heavy he can't lift it (to which I argue the answer is no, and that does NOT negate omnipotence).

If the second god is inferior to the first, then the answer is similar. God cannot create a thing exactly like himself and that doesn't negate omnipotence. If God does not have free will, then there cannot be a dispute and this pesky question is pre-resolved. But any other answer would be troublesome as to what happens in a conflict. Maybe he can create a perfect twin. What happens then, if there's a dispute?

Maybe, both?

If so the second god simply gets shunted to another universe either immediately or as a consequence of disagreement and that's the resolution.

[Dimmesdale]

If he did he would no longer be all-powerful.

Depends what you mean by 'all-powerful.' If the second God is capable of "doing" anything the first one can, (i.e, creating life ex nihilo, etc) then I'd say they are both equally all-powerful regarding the things they can each do.

One would have to answer the hypothetical question of whose thing gets done if there is a dispute and they attempt to do oppositely. As you can see, any answer except the second one being inferior in power negates the first one's absolute power.

By 'all-powerful' I then take it you mean something like 'Sovereignty' or 'Monarchy.' In other words, all-powerful as in pride of place, or political power. Not the mere competency to do extraordinarily powerful things, in and of themselves.... But rather Who wields said power and to what ends....

It is interesting to note that in Christianity, God being a Trinity, all the distinct persons of that trinity are in complete harmony with each other and their will is one.... namely, that of self-sacrificial Love.... I would assume that an exact clone of this God would similarly be a God of harmony, just as the first one is. But that harmony would be among the respective trinities, not extending to outside Gods. If God is Holy and Unique and JEALOUS then, of course, the problem remains as to WHO it is that must be worshipped. I suppose this is also a big reason why the God of Christianity, should he exist, would not like any competitor, and would deny him creation, even IF He could Create, or has the Potential to create Him....

If the second god is inferior to the first, then the answer is similar. God cannot create a thing exactly like himself and that doesn't negate omnipotence. If God does not have free will, then there cannot be a dispute and this pesky question is pre-resolved. But any other answer would be troublesome as to what happens in a conflict. Maybe he can create a perfect twin. What happens then, if there's a dispute?

Maybe, both?

If so the second god simply gets shunted to another universe either immediately or as a consequence of disagreement and that's the resolution.

I don't really believe in free will. I believe everything, including our choices, follow from a certain nature. In the case of choices specifically, they emerge from a certain pre-formed character that has bearing on 'given' things in nature, and not even God has the ability to go beyond that.

But if God truly is Jealous and "Holy" and pre-eminent and all that, then not even another universe could be sectioned off. All Creation would have to give him exclusive praise.

But that doesn't answer whether God is CAPABLE of creating a copy of himself. I am capable of ramming my car into open traffic. I have all the physics behind me to do it. The fact is, I won't, because my Will is set in such a way that I would not even consider in any non-superficial way to do such a thing. In the same way, I suppose, God would not muddy the waters.

But I think my argument that I laid out above is a good attempt as to whether it truly is impossible....

[JehovahsWitness]

Could the God of Christianity, ...be capable of creating a second God like or exactly like himself?

Yes. That would be Jesus.

Scripture indicates Jesus in his prehuman existence is an exact image of God the Almighty's character and nature. Naturally the "copy" remains forever inferior to the original as a created being, limited in power, rank, age and authority... but nevertheless is a relection of the original.

To illustrate : A man looks in a mirror. The reflection he sees is an exact image of himself. So while the image is two dimension and he is three, while the image does not have blood and flesh and he does. While the image has no wife, no children and the man may have... while the image did not exist prior to him stepping in front of the mirror and can be destroyed by shattering the glass, in short while the image is INFERIOR to the original, it is still an accurate and exact reflection of the original.

We are all little copies of God as the bible said humans were made in his image (meaning we too reflect to a limited extend His qualities and attributes ) but his spirit sons more so as they are superior in power to humans. The first and foremost of God's children however was Jesus , The WORD , who is effectively a copy of the Almighty.



JW




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[Dimmesdale]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actus_pur ... 20of%20God.

The concept of this, Actus Purus (which I don't claim to be any expert on -- although I feel I can glean quite a bit from the Wiki article) seems to get close to my own thinking on why God must be self-sustaining from all eternity.

There can be no potentiality in God, since God must be fully actual, from the very beginning of existence. If this were not so God would have to be acted on by something other than God. Something Preceding.

I take this same reasoning in the direct of God's sustenance by Power. I think of power as an energy. The energy of God is inseparable from the energetic. Without Energy, there would cease to be the Energetic (God). This is comparable to saying that a small tributary of water, is dependent on a greater source of water, namely the sea. If the sea were to cease to exist, by implication the tributary would also. Just so, should there be any break, no matter how slight, of the feeding of energy into the Being of the One God, God would cease to be God. I hope this clears things up somewhat.

[Purple Knight]

If he did he would no longer be all-powerful.

Depends what you mean by 'all-powerful.' If the second God is capable of "doing" anything the first one can, (i.e, creating life ex nihilo, etc) then I'd say they are both equally all-powerful regarding the things they can each do.

One would have to answer the hypothetical question of whose thing gets done if there is a dispute and they attempt to do oppositely. As you can see, any answer except the second one being inferior in power negates the first one's absolute power.

By 'all-powerful' I then take it you mean something like 'Sovereignty' or 'Monarchy.' In other words, all-powerful as in pride of place, or political power. Not the mere competency to do extraordinarily powerful things, in and of themselves.... But rather Who wields said power and to what ends....

In the same way you're capable of ramming your car into oncoming traffic (but, you won't) I think the question needs to be answered as to which god could overpower the other, in the case (which won't happen because he's jealous) that he should create a second one. Which one has that capability? Maybe the answer is messy and it's a lot like a fight between two people of equal physical ability and whoever wants it more, wins. It's not as if one is going to fall asleep and let the other do things, or run out of energy, so it might be a pure contest of will, where the negative thing wins out (not doing something) if neither one will ever give up.

But if God truly is Jealous and "Holy" and pre-eminent and all that, then not even another universe could be sectioned off. All Creation would have to give him exclusive praise.

No I disagree with that. It has to do with my case that no one can guarantee their own omniscience. You can never have been wrong in your life. You can have no obvious deficit of knowledge like man does as to what's around Alpha Centauri or how memory works. We know it's there, but we can't see it clearly. God can, potentially, see everything clearly that he can see at all. So he can have no evidence whatsoever that his knowledge is lacking.

However, God cannot guarantee that there is not another universe outside of ours or aside from ours. He can know the answer to everything he can see, but he cannot guarantee that there does not exist anything which he does not see, especially if it never affects his universe.

So if God created another one of himself and it apparently disappeared, leaving him to conclude it had vanished, his jealous wrath would not be incurred.

[onewithhim]

Could the God of Christianity, a Trinity, in principle be capable of creating a second God like or exactly like himself? This would be different than other limits on his creative ability that are logically absurd/self-refuting (a square circle, etc). At first glance, there doesn't seem to be any incoherence. But would there be a similar condition, of absurdity, preventing the god from creating someone just like him?

This was just something on my mind. Looking forward to responses.

P.S.,

I do understand of course that the second God would by definition not be eternal as the first. But this one condition doesn't seem to touch upon the essential QUALITY of the second God, which is what I am interested in; that in all other aspects he would be a virtual facsimile of the first.... Feel free however to bring up this condition in your argument if you think it relevant though.

There could be NO "second God." Jehovah alone is God and he doesn't change. God says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory..." (Isaiah 42:8< NWT) And: "Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, and his [Israel's] Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts: 'I am the first, and I the last, and besides Me there is no God.'" (Isaiah XLIV:6; Young's Literal Translation)

He wouldn't create another God. And if he did it certainly wouldn't be equal to himself.