If no one knows the son except the Father then you don’t know Him.

[Bobcat]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

[TRANSPONDER]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.

[Bobcat]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.

This is about knowing the son.

If only the Father knows Him how can anyone claim to know Him?

[TRANSPONDER]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.

This is about knowing the son.

If only the Father knows Him how can anyone claim to know Him?

You are right. I'll have to go back to the drawing -board on that.

Well,it seems to be a matter of context and good old Q again, I doubt that we will find much of that in Mark (not the baptists' question of praise of gullibility) but the context seems to be that nobody knows who the Son is...yet. But the hint is dropped that the disciples who follow him will be able to know who the Son is, and will know the father through him. It appears to me part of denying anyone being good with God unless they are Christians.

Luke 10. 21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Yes. It should all appear in Mark 4, but doesn't. If I am correct, none of the passage appears in Mark which makes it from Q document - like a surprising amount of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

[boatsnguitars]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

They meant "Biblically" knows him. Ew...

[TRANSPONDER]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

They meant "Biblically" knows him. Ew...

Indeed. Though they knew him as a teacher, leader, prophet or just a healer (like Pagan centurions) nobody knew who he really was, but the disciples would learn. At Bethsaida, Peter was apparently the first to really know who Jesus was, and after the Resurrection and Pentecost, just to make sure, anyone could 'Know' Jesus and through him the father, but being born again as a new person able to receive revealed Truth from God, even if it was factually wrong.

[Bobcat]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.
[/quote

This is about knowing the son.

If only the Father knows Him how can anyone claim to know Him?

You are right. I'll have to go back to the drawing -board on that.

Well,it seems to be a matter of context and good old Q again, I doubt that we will find much of that in Mark (not the baptists' question of praise of gullibility) but the context seems to be that nobody knows who the Son is...yet. But the hint is dropped that the disciples who follow him will be able to know who the Son is, and will know the father through him. It appears to me part of denying anyone being good with God unless they are Christians.

Luke 10. 21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Yes. It should all appear in Mark 4, but doesn't. If I am correct, none of the passage appears in Mark which makes it from Q document - like a surprising amount of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

The disciples never really knew Jesus. Sure they saw Him but never really understood Him. Just as Christianity doesn’t really know Him. They think they know but He will not allow those who do not keep His commandments to see Him.

“The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me and the man who loves me will be loved by my Father, I too shall love him and reveal myself to him.”

[TRANSPONDER]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.
[/quote

This is about knowing the son.

If only the Father knows Him how can anyone claim to know Him?

You are right. I'll have to go back to the drawing -board on that.

Well,it seems to be a matter of context and good old Q again, I doubt that we will find much of that in Mark (not the baptists' question of praise of gullibility) but the context seems to be that nobody knows who the Son is...yet. But the hint is dropped that the disciples who follow him will be able to know who the Son is, and will know the father through him. It appears to me part of denying anyone being good with God unless they are Christians.

Luke 10. 21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Yes. It should all appear in Mark 4, but doesn't. If I am correct, none of the passage appears in Mark which makes it from Q document - like a surprising amount of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

The disciples never really knew Jesus. Sure they saw Him but never really understood Him. Just as Christianity doesn’t really know Him. They think they know but He will not allow those who do not keep His commandments to see Him.

“The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me and the man who loves me will be loved by my Father, I too shall love him and reveal myself to him.”

Ah, well, that is a matter of opinion, or dogmatic doctrine, perhaps. The Gospels apparently propose (mainly Acts) that the disciples were indeed in a bit of a fog about Jesus until revelation, either through Jesus 'slide - show (1) and evening class after the resurrection (Acts)and the Pentecost event which should have told them everything they needed to know or they (and Believers today) are still in the dark and likely to be wrong as well as right, which given doctrinal and sectarian differences, would seem the case, but that's a skeptical view, of course.

As is yours, rather in suggesting that Works counts. But we have to consider the context (again) and I'll look at the context of your quote. It seems reasonable and following the Pauline teachings (on which Cafeteria - Christianity is based) Faith is what reveals the Son (and father) to the believer, but sinning can break that hotline to Jesusgod. It follows that (as in your quote) those who do not follow Jesus' teachings, like excusing themselves on the grounds that Jesus is now dead (and presumably not alive in heaven) cannot Know Jesus, which doesn't stop a lot of scammers and grifters pretending they do.

Thus, it is not that your quote means they can't know Jesus, but that they don't.

The quote is from John 14. But frankly I pretty much disregard John's ramblings as being his own opinions and preachings and nothing uttered by Jesus at all as evidenced by NOTHING of these unutterably important theological revelations being even hinted at in the synoptics, just as the raising of Lazarus is ignored by the Synoptics and Luke's most memorable parables are ignored by Mark and Luke.

No friends, you can bet your Troth Cential shares that this stuff was made up by the writers.

That said, it's worth looking at the exchange:

John 14 I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me,

Obviously Jesus saying they know him is refuted by telling them they don't. So it's really a Socratic leading of this class to a conclusion and a sort of prediction which will not be realised until the resurrected Jesus breathes the aroma of fish over them.

(1) "AUGGHHH!!!"
"Easy, easy, this is only the beginning." (Lucy Van Pelt).

[Bobcat]

Jesus said only the Father knows the son so how can you actually know Him?

“No one knows the son except the Father and no one knows the Father except the son and whom ever the son will reveal Him.”

Isn't that claiming that anyone can know 'The father' if the 'Son' reveals him to them?

The dogma being that by Joining the Christian club with Faith (not just so you can get tax exemption for your business by calling it a ministry) you get a hotline to God.
[/quote

This is about knowing the son.

If only the Father knows Him how can anyone claim to know Him?

You are right. I'll have to go back to the drawing -board on that.

Well,it seems to be a matter of context and good old Q again, I doubt that we will find much of that in Mark (not the baptists' question of praise of gullibility) but the context seems to be that nobody knows who the Son is...yet. But the hint is dropped that the disciples who follow him will be able to know who the Son is, and will know the father through him. It appears to me part of denying anyone being good with God unless they are Christians.

Luke 10. 21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
22 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
23 Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see. 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings wanted to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.”

Yes. It should all appear in Mark 4, but doesn't. If I am correct, none of the passage appears in Mark which makes it from Q document - like a surprising amount of the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.

The disciples never really knew Jesus. Sure they saw Him but never really understood Him. Just as Christianity doesn’t really know Him. They think they know but He will not allow those who do not keep His commandments to see Him.

“The man who keeps the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me and the man who loves me will be loved by my Father, I too shall love him and reveal myself to him.”

Ah, well, that is a matter of opinion, or dogmatic doctrine, perhaps. The Gospels apparently propose (mainly Acts) that the disciples were indeed in a bit of a fog about Jesus until revelation, either through Jesus 'slide - show (1) and evening class after the resurrection (Acts)and the Pentecost event which should have told them everything they needed to know or they (and Believers today) are still in the dark and likely to be wrong as well as right, which given doctrinal and sectarian differences, would seem the case, but that's a skeptical view, of course.

As is yours, rather in suggesting that Works counts. But we have to consider the context (again) and I'll look at the context of your quote. It seems reasonable and following the Pauline teachings (on which Cafeteria - Christianity is based) Faith is what reveals the Son (and father) to the believer, but sinning can break that hotline to Jesusgod. It follows that (as in your quote) those who do not follow Jesus' teachings, like excusing themselves on the grounds that Jesus is now dead (and presumably not alive in heaven) cannot Know Jesus, which doesn't stop a lot of scammers and grifters pretending they do.

Thus, it is not that your quote means they can't know Jesus, but that they don't.

The quote is from John 14. But frankly I pretty much disregard John's ramblings as being his own opinions and preachings and nothing uttered by Jesus at all as evidenced by NOTHING of these unutterably important theological revelations being even hinted at in the synoptics, just as the raising of Lazarus is ignored by the Synoptics and Luke's most memorable parables are ignored by Mark and Luke.

No friends, you can bet your Troth Cential shares that this stuff was made up by the writers.

That said, it's worth looking at the exchange:

John 14 I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me,

Obviously Jesus saying they know him is refuted by telling them they don't. So it's really a Socratic leading of this class to a conclusion and a sort of prediction which will not be realised until the resurrected Jesus breathes the aroma of fish over them.

(1) "AUGGHHH!!!"
"Easy, easy, this is only the beginning." (Lucy Van Pelt).

When Jesus said that from now on you know Him, meaning the Father , He was speaking of those who follow Him up until that point in His teaching not the 12 disciples. They really were only proxies for those who in the future would figure it out.

[TRANSPONDER]

(Bobcat) "When Jesus said that from now on you know Him, meaning the Father , He was speaking of those who follow Him up until that point in His teaching not the 12 disciples. They really were only proxies for those who in the future would figure it out."

But pretty much up to the Good Grief lectures after the resurrection, only the disciples (less Judas) knew him and it wasn't 'till the Pentecost or (according to John) the spirit was breathed on them, that they truly understood. Though in Acts, Peter at times acts like Jesusgod blasting followers who dfared to keep some of their money back from the church (a crime worthy of death, which they got) and at other times, acted like a Jewish fisherman who had to be persuaded by God to eat unclean food. In short, it's all invented and no wonder it's incoherent, contradictory and makes no sense.

But the point is the 12 (with Matthias elected to replace Judas (1) knew all they needed after the resurrection and being given understanding. The mainstream church view is that they founded the church that was the only way to get to know God through Jesus by being given his number. Through Belief, Faith and being saved, one has a personal relationship with Jesusgod. Though maybe one needs the right church, right doctrine and correct Biblical interpretation of the Bible, otherwise the belief of being saved, Right with God and having a personal relationship with Jesusgod is mere delusion, especially for those in other religions, where the state of revelation or enlightenment is pretty much well known. But they are all wrong, false and deluded because they do it in the wrong building.

So again, I accept the mental phenomenon but reject the segregated, divisive and elitist religions that have been invented and the Holy Books that go with them. While discussing what getting to 'know' Jesus -as -God, it is academic for me as it is all nonsense, apart from the common human delusion of Faith.

(1) which pretty much tells us that James, brother of Jesus, who became leader over even Peter, must have been one of the 12, or surely he, not Matthias, would have been elected.