Do you think God loves you? Why?

[Masterblaster]

Hello

Make the case for a loving God!

Start with your best indication that this is, in fact, the case. Use example, scripture,doctrine, personal belief, whatever.
I will debate to the contrary, and I will no doubt, have help.
Give it your best shot!

[boatsnguitars]

That God is omniscient and understands his love.

Well, you don’t have to be omniscient to understand one’s own love; I understand when I love my wife and when I don’t, at least some of the time. But my belief in omniscience ultimately hinges on the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus and the reliability of it to record Jesus’ teachings, which include the reliability of the Tanakh to record God’s revelation to humanity. Now, obviously, that isn't the case for those things, just describing what they are.

You're right, you've made no case for those things. That should give you pause about what you actually believe is impossible to explain.

There is no difference listening to a Theist describe the supernatural realm they believe in and a Star Wars fan describe "The Force." I hope you do recognize the difference in science explaining, say, quantum mechanics, when they have actually built working computers based on the principle.

Have you built a computer based on the Supernatural, or The Force (I'll accept either one)?

[The Tanager]

You're right, you've made no case for those things. That should give you pause about what you actually believe is impossible to explain.

There is no difference listening to a Theist describe the supernatural realm they believe in and a Star Wars fan describe "The Force." I hope you do recognize the difference in science explaining, say, quantum mechanics, when they have actually built working computers based on the principle.

Have you built a computer based on the Supernatural, or The Force (I'll accept either one)?

I haven’t made that case here out of respect for this thread and the people in it. I don’t want to hijack it discussions that have a lot of threads dedicated to them unless everyone (especially in this case Masterblaster) think it is what should be done.

I fail to see how building a computer is the universal test of truth. If you want to support that assertion, go for it.

[boatsnguitars]

You're right, you've made no case for those things. That should give you pause about what you actually believe is impossible to explain.

There is no difference listening to a Theist describe the supernatural realm they believe in and a Star Wars fan describe "The Force." I hope you do recognize the difference in science explaining, say, quantum mechanics, when they have actually built working computers based on the principle.

Have you built a computer based on the Supernatural, or The Force (I'll accept either one)?

I haven’t made that case here out of respect for this thread and the people in it. I don’t want to hijack it discussions that have a lot of threads dedicated to them unless everyone (especially in this case Masterblaster) think it is what should be done.

I fail to see how building a computer is the universal test of truth. If you want to support that assertion, go for it.

Building something that functions as you expect, based on the properties of the thing in question is an objective demonstration of what you claim that thing can do.

I find your inability to accept this a symptom of your belief in the Supernatural which has never been demonstrated, yet you believe it, and therefore, you are trained to accept things that aren't demonstrated to you.

Compare:
1. The Bible says Faith can do anything. Belief in Jesus can do anything. OK, Tanager: make me Queen of England, using only Faith.
2. Scientists claim they have discovered a property of the universe that seems "spooky" and strange, and once they get a little more knowledge about it, might be able to do something with it. People roll their eyes and think, "sure, that's all woo and junk science." Then scientists make a computer using that thing.

[Masterblaster]

You're right, you've made no case for those things. That should give you pause about what you actually believe is impossible to explain.

There is no difference listening to a Theist describe the supernatural realm they believe in and a Star Wars fan describe "The Force." I hope you do recognize the difference in science explaining, say, quantum mechanics, when they have actually built working computers based on the principle.

Have you built a computer based on the Supernatural, or The Force (I'll accept either one)?

I haven’t made that case here out of respect for this thread and the people in it. I don’t want to hijack it discussions that have a lot of threads dedicated to them unless everyone (especially in this case Masterblaster) think it is what should be done.

I fail to see how building a computer is the universal test of truth. If you want to support that assertion, go for it.

Hello The Tanager

You say - "I haven’t made that case here out of respect for this thread and the people in it. I don’t want to hijack it discussions that have a lot of threads dedicated to them unless everyone (especially in this case Masterblaster) think it is what should be done"

[Masterblaster]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #63]

Hello boatsnguitars and The Tanager

There is a God out there that we can love and take to heart. Your discussion talks about building things. Look at this

"A brief lesson in the physics of sound should help underscore the strangeness of the archaeological record here. Some of the bone flutes recovered from Paleolithic cave sites are intact enough that they can be played, and in many cases researchers have found that the finger holes carved into the bones are spaced in such a way that they can produce musical intervals that we now call perfect fourths and fifths."

Apparently, music as a metaphysical entity exists in the world, regardless of time. Mankind can detect and engage and explore this real thing. Then why not God?

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #63]

Hello boatsnguitars and The Tanager

There is a God out there that we can love and take to heart. Your discussion talks about building things. Look at this

"A brief lesson in the physics of sound should help underscore the strangeness of the archaeological record here. Some of the bone flutes recovered from Paleolithic cave sites are intact enough that they can be played, and in many cases researchers have found that the finger holes carved into the bones are spaced in such a way that they can produce musical intervals that we now call perfect fourths and fifths."

Apparently, music as a metaphysical entity exists in the world, regardless of time. Mankind can detect and engage and explore this real thing. Then why not God?

Because music,like art and language, is a human invention. Based on instincts we don't quite understand, as indeed is religion and other superstitions. I'm interested is any research (if any) into this but see no reason to relate any of this to a god, which first has to be shown to exist, even before we get onto Which One.

As to bone flutes, bone in suitable conditions can survive a long time. And the finger holes can indeed approximate to musical intervals. But they were never 'perfect' but traditional music is natural scale and was until the invention of the tempered scale in the 18th c.

[Masterblaster]

Hello TRANSPONDER

You say - "Because music,like art and language, is a human invention. Based on instincts we don't quite understand, as indeed is religion and other superstitions. I'm interested is any research (if any) into this but see no reason to relate any of this to a god, which first has to be shown to exist, even before we get onto Which One."

Are you interested enough to start a debate thread on this ( not something that I have seen ,too often) You will loose on the underlined point above which needs to be teased out somewhere else. Set it up ,if you can, Please!

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #63]

Hello boatsnguitars and The Tanager

There is a God out there that we can love and take to heart. Your discussion talks about building things. Look at this

"A brief lesson in the physics of sound should help underscore the strangeness of the archaeological record here. Some of the bone flutes recovered from Paleolithic cave sites are intact enough that they can be played, and in many cases researchers have found that the finger holes carved into the bones are spaced in such a way that they can produce musical intervals that we now call perfect fourths and fifths."

Apparently, music as a metaphysical entity exists in the world, regardless of time. Mankind can detect and engage and explore this real thing. Then why not God?

1. They said only some were P4 and P5. Make enough and it would make sense to get it right a few times.
2. The P4 and P5 (note the "guitar" in my name - I was a Music Major) are based on wave patterns that when played can be picked up by most people.
Fun story, most songs use the I, IV, and V chords, as they tend to be more pleasing. (Less pleasing are microtones, but some cultures use microtones (India, for example). More wild is that some people's ear is so precise they can recognize a note is off by a few cents (perfect pitch) - there are many songs out there:

(Among many - just look up microtonal music)

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/w ... es.979235/

It's the same as we find certain air temperatures pleasing, or certain light intensities pleasing, etc.
There is no woo, no metaphysics needed.

The fact that a few flutes found this wave length and we pick those out as amazing is just our Western 12-note scale perspective.

[Masterblaster]

Hello boatsnguitars

I envy you your musical proficiency. I have none.
I was reading about this object :The Divje Babe Flute

This was to be my 'religious artifact' disclosure. I was trying to bring people to the conclusions that both you and TRANSPONDER, apparently,share.

We are prompted towards metaphysical conclusions through an unexplained reaction between our human nature and the bewildering backdrop to our existence on this planet.