God's Plan?
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God's Plan?
Post #1For Debate: Why didn't God directly author the Bible himself? Why instead give his instruction(s) to fallible and sinful humans to write down his wishes to paper, which then makes it quite easy for skeptics to conclude that such writings were not from any higher power at all?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #61You missed my point. My point is that you are not on the same team or page as 1213.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #62Ok, thank you. That was a good example. However, if someone continuously attacks a person, I think defending can be also preventing the attacks, which then is more than just blocking the hits.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:12 am Let's have an example:
1. You come to my house and knock on my door.
2. I answer the door and say hi.
3. You throw a punch at my face.
4. I block the punch. DEFENDING because I'm protecting myself.
5. You stand your ground and try another punch.
6. I block this one and also punch you in the throat, dropping you to the ground. DEFENDING because you are not leaving and continue to assault me until you are stopped.
7. You are taken away in an ambulance.
8. Three days later I wake up and get really mad as I think about what you did.
9. I find your address and go knock on your door.
10. You answer the door and say hi.
11. I punch you in the face. AVENGING because the previous attack was already over and I was safe. I have gone out of my way to now attack you in retaliation when I didn't need to.
You are equating step 11 with steps 4 and 6. They are NOT the same. If you think so, then that's a 'you' problem and a misunderstanding of different concepts.
Hitting has nothing to do with whether it's defending or avenging. Intent and circumstance have everything to do with it.
However, I believe in the case, it was God's punishment for evil nation, not people avenging on their own.
Yes, disciples of Jesus should not retaliate. This does not mean that there will be no retaliation, or that it is always wrong.benchwarmer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2024 8:12 am According to the God in the Bible, retaliation is perfectly fine and in fact ordered in Numbers 31 so I would think you would agree with it.
However, also according to the God in the Bible retaliation is NOT fine and you should "turn the other cheek".
Don't seek revenge yourselves, beloved, but give place to God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay, says the Lord."
Romans 12:19
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #63[Replying to 1213 in post #62]
Just think about how all of these debated matters (may have been) cleared up if the 'almighty' opted to write it all down himself So why didn't he?
Just think about how all of these debated matters (may have been) cleared up if the 'almighty' opted to write it all down himself So why didn't he?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #64Even if God would write directly the truth here, it would not matter, if person doesn't want to understand.POI wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:02 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #62]
Just think about how all of these debated matters (may have been) cleared up if the 'almighty' opted to write it all down himself So why didn't he?
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #65Well, damn' if some other Bible apologist didn't just now pull the same crummy argument. If the Bible was full of errors, fails and contradictions, atheists would have no case, even if if they tried hard to make one. But the fact is that the Bible is wrong on science, history (quite a bit) and coherency, so the atheist (or Bible -critic) case is strong and getting stronger, and the excuses of the Bible apologists are getting feebler and more and more based on "Not Understanding" what the evidence for science (e.g cetan sequence validates speciation) and history (Tyre was not destroyed for ever and Exodus looks increasingly dubious) and of course the contradictions of the gospels undermine NT credibility.1213 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:20 amEven if God would write directly the truth here, it would not matter, if person doesn't want to understand.POI wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:02 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #62]
Just think about how all of these debated matters (may have been) cleared up if the 'almighty' opted to write it all down himself So why didn't he?
Understanding through evidence and reason is beating down "Understanding" which seems no more than faithbased denial of science, reason and even what the bible actually says.
Nice going, Bible apologists.
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #66Poisoning the well... Nice!
I guess it's better to go this route, verses asking why God instead insisted upon fallible humans writing down his instructions. What's also funny about your response, is that we have millions who DO want to understand, and disagreement is still very much a thing. Maybe a descent start would be to assure that the messages are clear and infallible? Even otseng acknowledges that the Bible is not inerrant.
Last edited by POI on Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #67Yes. I wonder whether some Believers cafeteria Christians at lewast w(with some ability to Question) will not see that as a pretty impudent ploy..not unfamiliar, with those who post gobbledegook and when asked to explain this is refused on the grounds the other side is too stupid. It is part of (as Theramin trees 'leaving Faith' said) "A perfect system for protecting lies".
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #68Holy monkeys, now people have a desire to not understand! What's next, people have a desire to starve?1213 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:20 amEven if God would write directly the truth here, it would not matter, if person doesn't want to understand.POI wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2024 3:02 pm [Replying to 1213 in post #62]
Just think about how all of these debated matters (may have been) cleared up if the 'almighty' opted to write it all down himself So why didn't he?
Could you imagine this in real life?
Person A: I have a direct truth I can provide for you to gain an eternal life of bliss after death.
Person B: I don't want to understand how to get that.
It's even more ridiculous when the scenario is a God writing down a direct truth and still pretending that a person would desire to not understand.
The lengths some go through to maintain a belief is astounding.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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Re: God's Plan?
Post #69You can't show any real error in the Bible, but I can see you have tried hard to do so. It is interesting how weak arguments atheists have.TRANSPONDER wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:36 am ...If the Bible was full of errors, fails and contradictions, atheists would have no case, even if if they tried hard to make one. ...