Did God restore Israel in 1948?

[dad1]

Israel must be back in the land in the end time according to the bible. Some people suggest that God brought them back, and that they are now fulfilling prophesy such as the desert blooming like a rose etc. Can anyone support that idea? Several denominations do make such claims.

In the end, after the remnant repents and Jesus returns, is when God restores believing Israel to the land. Not, as far as I can tell, in 1948. So, there are good bible teaching preachers that seem to think otherwise (Jack Hibbs, Behold Israel, Jan Markell, James Kaddis, Bret meador, etc etc). The thread is for someone to support their claims. In other threads I have not seen this done yet.

[1213]

- how long would this covenant to be in operation?
- what was the purpose of the covenant (what, if anything was the covenant meant to achieve) ?
- what was the purpose of the law? (what, if anything was the law meant to achieve) ?
- what were the parties contracted to do?
- what (if anything) would happened to the parties should one or both not honour their part of the contract

- By what i know, Bible doesn't give time limit to the covenant.
- Part of the deal was that God gives blessings, if people keep it. So, one thing to achieve is the blessings.
- I have understood the purpose of the law is to show people what is not good and what is good.
- The parties are God and Jews.
- I think I have posted what will happen to the party that doesn't keep the covenant.

c) I believe Paul referred to the God's law, the commandments God gave.

To whom?
How many laws were there?
Were any parts able to be changed/disregareds or modified?

It was given to Jews originally. At least 10 commandments. There are also several other rules, but they are separate from the 10, which is why they are not necessary the same as the God's law. i don't think any of them is modified/disregarded.

[JehovahsWitness]

It was given to Jews originally. At least 10 commandments. ...

Was any part of the Law given to non-Isaelites ?

PSALM 147:19-20 (NIV)

He has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation

DEUTERONOMY 4:8

And what great nation has righteous regulations and judicial decisions like this entire Law that I am putting before you today?

[JehovahsWitness]

THE ENTIRE LAW

There are also several other rules, but they are separate from the 10, which is why they are not necessary the same as the God's law.

Can you explain why Paul refered to "the Law" in a discussion about the requirements to make animal sacrifices, if his references to "the law" only included the ten commandements ?

HEBREWS 10:1

For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect

If the expression "the law" only refered to the TEN COMMANDEMENTS , can you explain why, when Jesus spoke about the greatest commandements [in the law], he refered to a commandement which was not one of the ten?

MATTHEW 22: 36-40

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”+ 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’+ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’+ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

[JehovahsWitness]

THE PUPOSE OF THE LAW

- Part of the deal was that God gives blessings, if people keep it. So, one thing to achieve is the blessings.

So it had nothing to do with the Christ?

GALATIANS 3: 24

So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ

Please explain the above.


So nothing to do with the kingdom

EXODUS 19:5, 6

5 Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property* out of all peoples,+ for the whole earth belongs to me.+ 6 You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’+ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

Please explain the above.

[MilesJBennell]

... the old covenant was abolished, but not the law which is now written in us.

It is evident to me that you have a different understanding about what The (Mosaic) law is and what the covenant is. I'm asking the following to find out what you think these two things actually are.

(a) Who were the parties of the old covenant?
(b) What were the terms and conditions of the old covenant ?
(c) What is "the law" Paul refered to and how does it relate to (a) and (b)

What in real terms, would be the difference in terms of obligations for the above **IF** ....

(d) the contract /covenant was abolished along with the law?
(e) the contract /covenant was not abolished and the law was not abolished law?

Please read post #139 -->> viewtopic.php?p=1149039#p1149039 if you need help understanding the questions


JW

The old covenant was between the children of Israel and God. Where God said...

22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

The law consisted of many things like The Ten Commandments, Ceremonial Laws, Civil and Social Laws. Many of those laws were just for the children of Israel until the messiah would come and fulfill them to free the people from the obligation to obey them.

By way of analogy, the invention of the airplane did not abolish the law of gravity, but we could fly long distances.

[JehovahsWitness]

Many of those laws were just for the children of Israel until the messiah would come and fulfill them to free the people from the obligation to obey them.

So when the Messiah arrived the Jews no longer had to obey the law - what do you call a law you dont have to keep and for which there is no legal consequences for breaking.

What is the act of superseding?

: to suspend the operation of (a judgment or order) by means of a supersedeas. 2 : to take the place of in authority. : preempt override. 3 : to take the place of and render null or ineffective

(The law of gravity can at no time be defied without consequence; indeed every living thing on the planet from its creation until today is obliged to obey the law of gravity . Planes do not break the law of gravity they fly because their design conforms to various other laws-aerodynamics - that exist in conjunction with the gravitational forces )

[1213]

THE PUPOSE OF THE LAW

- Part of the deal was that God gives blessings, if people keep it. So, one thing to achieve is the blessings.

So it had nothing to do with the Christ?

GALATIANS 3: 24

So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ

Please explain the above.

I don't see how that is relevant to this topic. But, I understand that Paul is teaching that the law doesn't make anyone righteous. And the word for guardian can be translated to mean teacher in that, which means law has teacher to us, leading to Christ.

So nothing to do with the kingdom

EXODUS 19:5, 6

5 Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property* out of all peoples,+ for the whole earth belongs to me.+ 6 You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’+ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

Please explain the above.

I don't see what is there to explain, I think it means what it says.

Can you explain why Paul refered to "the Law" in a discussion about the requirements to make animal sacrifices, if his references to "the law" only included the ten commandements ?

HEBREWS 10:1

For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect

If the expression "the law" only refered to the TEN COMMANDEMENTS , can you explain why, when Jesus spoke about the greatest commandements [in the law], he refered to a commandement which was not one of the ten?

MATTHEW 22: 36-40

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”+ 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’+ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’+ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

The ten commandments are in the two.

And, if sins are forgiven, why would you need to sacrifice? Do you think the law says people must sacrifice, where it is said?

But, I don't say it is only about the ten. I say only, it is at least the ten.

It was given to Jews originally. At least 10 commandments. ...

Was any part of the Law given to non-Isaelites ?

I think the law is for everyone who want to be part of the covenant.

[JehovahsWitness]

THE PUPOSE OF THE LAW

- Part of the deal was that God gives blessings, if people keep it. So, one thing to achieve is the blessings.

So it had nothing to do with the Christ?

GALATIANS 3: 24

So the Law became our guardian leading to Christ

Please explain the above.

I don't see how that is relevant to this topic. But, I understand that Paul is teaching that the law doesn't make anyone righteous. And the word for guardian can be translated to mean teacher in that, which means law has teacher to us*, leading to Christ.

QUESTION And what happens to the teacher when the student graduates?

*It was not teaching YOU because it was not given to you (unless you are Jewish). It was teaching/leading THEM (the Israelites) to Christ: The Law was God's means of protecting the Jews (from you and me and all non Isrealites) until Jeus arrived.

QUESTION: The law cannot be modified, ammended, changed or adapted.. . Do you wish to continue to be seperated from natural Jews?

[JehovahsWitness]

So nothing to do with the kingdom

EXODUS 19:5, 6

5 Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property* out of all peoples,+ for the whole earth belongs to me.+ 6 You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’+ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

Please explain the above.

I don't see what is there to explain, I think it means what it says.

What is the kingdom of priests?
Who were to be selected for this kingdom of Priests?
When would this kingdom rule and over whom?

Since the Mosaic law did not allow for kingship and Priesthood to be combined in the same office, would the above mean the law would have to be modified? Is there and alliance for the Mosaic law to be changed / modified?

[JehovahsWitness]

If the expression "the law" only refered to the TEN COMMANDEMENTS , can you explain why, when Jesus spoke about the greatest commandements [in the law], he refered to a commandement which was not one of the ten?

MATTHEW 22: 36-40

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”+ 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’+ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’+ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

The ten commandments are in the two.

I do not see how this answers the question. If when Paul (and Jesus) used the term "the law" they were only refering to the TEN COMMANDEMENTS why did they choose "rules" that were not in the ten when asked / discussing "the law".

To illustrate: If someone asked you which is the biggest apple and yoj abswered " This orange", they could legitimately say "but an orange is not an apple"

Jesus was asked to choose something in THE LAW which was the most important COMMANDEMENT.
According to you he chose something that was NOT part of "the Law" (because according to you , "the law" only refers to the ten commandments) and was not commandement (because the others were not commandements they were just optional rules)