None good but God

[Wootah]

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Question: If there are none good but God how can a not good being pay for my sins?

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #218]

On another direction. What is your view of hell? Does it exist? Is it forever? Oh and can God forgive people without Jesus?

[tam]

Peace to you,

If Jesus is not good how in heaven and earth can he pay for anything, especially against God?

From post 43:

A - If that Being is the Life. He (and His blood) need only have enough value to cover all other life. That is all that is required for Him to be able to give His life in exchange for our lives (for all the lives that Adam subjected to Death). His life does indeed have more than enough value to exchange for all the rest of life.

"Life for life".




B - It was only His flesh that was 'not good'. Christ could not claim to be good because of His flesh at that time (not to mention that He always glorified His Father, saying, "the Father is greater than I"). Remember, Christ came in the image of sinful man (Romans 8:3), and He would have inherited his flesh from His mother. Despite the RCC doctrine, Mary had sin (error) and death in her flesh. Christ overcame the flesh though - and did not sin. But His flesh - like the rest of mankind - had sin and death in it (or else He would not have died).



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Wootah]

[Replying to tam in post #222]

In another direction on the same topic.

What is your view of hell? Does it exist, if not what do you believe? Is it forever? And can God justly forgive people without Jesus?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #222]

In another direction on the same topic.

Okay...

What is your view of hell?

I can share what I understand from the word itself and from what my Lord Jaheshua teaches:

The word "hell" is derived from multiple words (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna), and they don't all mean the same thing. "Hell" is also not the lake of fire (since 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire at the end of judgment.)

I'll put a link in here to another thread explaining that bit.

This is from the thread "what is the biblical view of 'hell?'"
viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

This is from the thread "eternal hell: yes or no':
viewtopic.php?p=1028756#p1028756

Does it exist, if not what do you believe?

It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ) to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment.)

Is it forever?

No.

Hades is emptied OUT at the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead.)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades GAVE UP the dead that were IN them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.


Then the dead - great and small - come before the throne of God. Based upon what is written in their books (and the Lamb's book of Life), some are granted life and some are cast into the lake of fire (meaning, the second death.) That second death - utter destruction - is forever.

And can God justly forgive people without Jesus?

God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses. It is called mercy for a reason and it is to all our benefit that God is merciful. I know I need His mercy, so I would not begrudge that mercy to anyone else, rather I would rejoice.

But since Christ Jaheshua is involved - He is the One who sits in the mercy seat (asking mercy for us) - the question of whether or not it can be done without Him seems to be a bit moot.

I could be misunderstanding the reason for your question, though.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Capbook]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #222]

In another direction on the same topic.

Okay...

What is your view of hell?

I can share what I understand from the word itself and from what my Lord Jaheshua teaches:

The word "hell" is derived from multiple words (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna), and they don't all mean the same thing. "Hell" is also not the lake of fire (since 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire at the end of judgment.)

I'll put a link in here to another thread explaining that bit.

This is from the thread "what is the biblical view of 'hell?'"
viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

This is from the thread "eternal hell: yes or no':
viewtopic.php?p=1028756#p1028756

Does it exist, if not what do you believe?

It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment.)

Is it forever?

No.

Hades is emptied OUT at the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead.)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades GAVE UP the dead that were IN them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.


Then the dead - great and small - come before the throne of God. Based upon what is written in their books (and the Lamb's book of Life), some are granted life and some are cast into the lake of fire (meaning, the second death.) That second death - utter destruction - is forever.

And can God justly forgive people without Jesus?

God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses. It is called mercy for a reason and it is to all our benefit that God is merciful. I know I need His mercy, so I would not begrudge that mercy to anyone else, rather I would rejoice.

But since Christ Jaheshua is involved - He is the One who sits in the mercy seat (asking mercy for us) - the question of whether or not it can be done without Him seems to be a bit moot.

I could be misunderstanding the reason for your question, though.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I get confused or misunderstand your statement below specially the highlighted;

You've said, "It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment".)

Because Revelation 20:6 says that who has part in the first resurrection shall reign with Christ in 1k years.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.(NKJV)

[tam]

Peace to you!

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #222]

In another direction on the same topic.

Okay...

What is your view of hell?

I can share what I understand from the word itself and from what my Lord Jaheshua teaches:

The word "hell" is derived from multiple words (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna), and they don't all mean the same thing. "Hell" is also not the lake of fire (since 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire at the end of judgment.)

I'll put a link in here to another thread explaining that bit.

This is from the thread "what is the biblical view of 'hell?'"
viewtopic.php?p=970644#p970644

This is from the thread "eternal hell: yes or no':
viewtopic.php?p=1028756#p1028756

Does it exist, if not what do you believe?

It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment.)

Is it forever?

No.

Hades is emptied OUT at the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead.)

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades GAVE UP the dead that were IN them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.


Then the dead - great and small - come before the throne of God. Based upon what is written in their books (and the Lamb's book of Life), some are granted life and some are cast into the lake of fire (meaning, the second death.) That second death - utter destruction - is forever.

And can God justly forgive people without Jesus?

God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses. It is called mercy for a reason and it is to all our benefit that God is merciful. I know I need His mercy, so I would not begrudge that mercy to anyone else, rather I would rejoice.

But since Christ Jaheshua is involved - He is the One who sits in the mercy seat (asking mercy for us) - the question of whether or not it can be done without Him seems to be a bit moot.

I could be misunderstanding the reason for your question, though.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

I get confused or misunderstand your statement below specially the highlighted;

You've said, "It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment".)

Because Revelation 20:6 says that who has part in the first resurrection shall reign with Christ in 1k years.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.(NKJV)

Ah, thank you for pointing that out Capbook. I messed up the parenthesis. It should read as follows:

"It does exist. Hell (as in Sheol or Hades) is the world of the dead. It is where the dead go (all except those who are in Christ) to await the second resurrection, the resurrection of the dead. In the world of the dead, the dead are 'asleep', conscious of nothing (not suffering in some kind of conscious torment.)"

You are quite right that those who are in Christ (Christians, anointed ones) take part in the first resurrection and reign with Christ for a thousand years. Thank you again for pointing that out!



(I am going to fix the parenthesis in the original post if I can still edit it. Wootah if you are reading, I am so sorry if I confused you (or anyone else)! )

Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[William]

If I were to claim that Jesus was my Lord and I his Slave and that I followed what he said, I would have to say that Jesus did say that there was a hell to experience and didn't say that folk who die simply "went to sleep" or were no longer aware.

[Capbook]

If I were to claim that Jesus was my Lord and I his Slave and that I followed what he said, I would have to say that Jesus did say that there was a hell to experience and didn't say that folk who die simply "went to sleep" or were no longer aware.

Jesus did say that Lazarus went to sleep meant died. And dead in verse 10 defined in Greek-English Lexicon as
unable to respond, react, no impulse or desire and etc.;

NT:599 Dead
to be unable to respond or react to any impulse or desire - 'to be dead to, to not respond to, to have no part in.'
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain.)

John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
KJV

[William]

If I were to claim that Jesus was my Lord and I his Slave and that I followed what he said, I would have to say that Jesus did say that there was a hell to experience and didn't say that folk who die simply "went to sleep" or were no longer aware.

Jesus did say that Lazarus went to sleep meant died. And dead in verse 10 defined in Greek-English Lexicon as
unable to respond, react, no impulse or desire and etc.;

NT:599 Dead
to be unable to respond or react to any impulse or desire - 'to be dead to, to not respond to, to have no part in.'
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain.)

John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
KJV

What I meant was that.
Further to this, Jesus didn't claim human personalities who died - were no longer aware or able to experience living. He appears to see death of the body as different from death of the person/human personality. He also appears to understand that most folk don't understand that they are mind having human experiences, rather than simply human bodies.
I see you did not have a comment for my saying that hell was spoken of by Jesus as a real phenomena those who have left their dead bodies, can mindfully experience.

[onewithhim]

If I were to claim that Jesus was my Lord and I his Slave and that I followed what he said, I would have to say that Jesus did say that there was a hell to experience and didn't say that folk who die simply "went to sleep" or were no longer aware.

Jesus did not say anything about a literal fiery hell. He used symbolism to get across a message of complete destruction for the wicked. He mentioned "Gehenna" 7 times in the book of Matthew. (Matthew 5:22,29,30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33.) He wanted to get across to people that when someone goes into Gehenna they will be totally annihilated, just like the trash in the dump of Gehenna that was outside the city. What happened to the trash? It was completely burned up. No one was conscious in the dump's fire. Now, people have translated "Gehenna" as "hell," and this is wrong. That gives people the idea that hell is a literal burning repository for the wicked where there is consciousness. Very confusing for people. Particularly when "hell" merely means "the grave."

"Hell" is from "Hades," the common grave of mankind. It is mentioned 3 times by Jesus (Matth. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 16:23) and referred to 6 more times in Acts and Revelation. When we discern what "hell" actually is, the verses make more sense. (Acts 2:27,31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14.)

There is no fiery hell to experience. A person is either dead in Hades or annihilated in Gehenna. Those in Hades will be resurrected. Those in Gehenna will not, because they are completely destroyed. The reference in Luke to Hades is an analogy or metaphor for a scenario Jesus wanted to teach something about---the wickedness of the Pharisees. They were listening when he wove the tale of the "rich man" and the poor man, Lazareth. The poor man stood for the common people, and the rich man was symbolic for the Pharisees. It was a brilliant parable to show the Pharisees just where they stood with God (the greater Abraham). It was not literal.

If someone says that there are dead people roasting in fire somewhere, they are not speaking the truth. "The dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) And spirits can't feel literal heat. So what is there to burn in "hell"? We are wise to seek to understand just what "Gehenna" is and what "Hades" is, and we will understand where Jesus is coming from.