JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[JehovahsWitness]

Then why the Father did not say, "therefore God, even thy Almighty God" to be understood they are not equal?
This verse proves they are equal then.

Heb 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

Paul was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures, there was not doubt in the Hebrew bible that YHWH is the Almighty.






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[Capbook]

Then why the Father did not say, "therefore God, even thy Almighty God" to be understood they are not equal?
This verse proves they are equal then.

Heb 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

Paul was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures, there was not doubt in the Hebrew bible that YHWH is the Almighty.






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Who is the speaker in verse 8? The Almighty Jesus, who is to come. He that liveth, was dead and behold alive.

Rev 1:8
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
KJV

Rev 1:13
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
KJV

Rev 1:17-18
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
KJV

[JehovahsWitness]

Who is the speaker in verse 8?

That would be JEHOVAH, the Father.





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[Capbook]

Who is the speaker in verse 8?

That would be JEHOVAH, the Father.





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Who is coming? Jesus or the Father.
Who was dead and been alive? Jesus or the Father.

[onewithhim]

and the NWT never distorts the meaning

You keep saying this despite repeatedly being shown otherwise.

For the record, I searched my old posts and found the distortions that I've previously discussed. Here they are in no particular order:

• John 10:38 — "in union with me" instead of "in me."
• 1 Samuel 28 — scare quotes around Samuel's name.
• John 8:58 — mistranslates ἐγὼ εἰμί as "I have been."
• Genesis 24:67 — "and he fell in love with her" instead of "he loved her."
• Luke 4:7-8 and 24:52 — translation of προσκυνέω differently when used of God the Father rather than Jesus. This one's in other places as well, but the contrast in Luke is most obviously the result of theological manipulation.
• Matthew 1:20, et al — Replacing "lord" in the New Testament with "Jehovah" where the translators think it belongs.
• Exodus 21:22-25 — adding "premature" and mistranslating "injury" as "fatality."

There are more than this, but search broke while I was compiling the list. This should be enough, though. The NWT routinely distorts the text of the Bible during translation to either avoid or support particular theological conclusions. The fact that you agree with the theological conclusions doesn't somehow make the distortions disappear.

The meanings are not distorted in any of those examples. In fact, the "I have been" translation is the most accurate rendering. The NWT does not conform verses to align with JW belief. Jason BeDuhn says that the NWT is the most accurate and has no bone to pick except accuracy in translation. See pages 38 and 39 in the excellent book "Truth in Translation" by BeDuhn.

[onewithhim]

Then why the Father did not say, "therefore God, even thy Almighty God" to be understood they are not equal?
This verse proves they are equal then.

Heb 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

Paul was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures, there was not doubt in the Hebrew bible that YHWH is the Almighty.

Paul showed clearly that Jesus has a God. That is what "God, even thy God means. And of course YHWH is the Almighty. Jesus is the Son of YHWH.




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[onewithhim]

I prefer the Authorized Version, that says God was manifest in the flesh. "Theos" Greek of God see below, Jesus(God) was manifest in the flesh. ....

Does the verse does not say Almighty God (λέγει Κύριος Παντοκράτωρ) The Father or YHWH ?

The verse proves that Jesus is God.

Jesus is god but he's not ALMIGHTY God, he's not equal in power, age or position to ALMIGHTY God Jehovah the Father.

Then why the Father did not say, "therefore God, even thy Almighty God" to be understood they are not equal?
This verse proves they are equal then.

Heb 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

This shows clearly that Jesus has a God. In no one's imagination could this mean that God and Jesus are equal. It is so plain to see that Jesus has a God. And YHWH is the Almighty, of course. Jesus is not YHWH but the Son of YHWH.

[Difflugia]

The meanings are not distorted in any of those examples.

This is categorically false. If you think you can make your case, pick one to defend. And by defend, I mean more than just repeat an assertion.

In fact, the "I have been" translation is the most accurate rendering.

ἐγὼ εἰμί is in the present tense. Translating it as perfect past literally cannot be "the most accurate rendering" when compared to "I am."

The NWT does not conform verses to align with JW belief.

No? So the scare quotes in 1 Samuel aren't theologically motivated?

Jason BeDuhn says that the NWT is the most accurate and has no bone to pick except accuracy in translation.

And I'm sure Tom Cruise has glowing things to say about Dianetics.

See pages 38 and 39 in the excellent book "Truth in Translation" by BeDuhn.

He makes much slicker apologetic arguments elsewhere. The best he can muster in the description on those pages is that it's OK if the NWT is biased because everybody is biased.

[Capbook]

I prefer the Authorized Version, that says God was manifest in the flesh. "Theos" Greek of God see below, Jesus(God) was manifest in the flesh. ....

Does the verse does not say Almighty God (λέγει Κύριος Παντοκράτωρ) The Father or YHWH ?

The verse proves that Jesus is God.

Jesus is god but he's not ALMIGHTY God, he's not equal in power, age or position to ALMIGHTY God Jehovah the Father.

Then why the Father did not say, "therefore God, even thy Almighty God" to be understood they are not equal?
This verse proves they are equal then.

Heb 1:9
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

This shows clearly that Jesus has a God. In no one's imagination could this mean that God and Jesus are equal. It is so plain to see that Jesus has a God. And YHWH is the Almighty, of course. Jesus is not YHWH but the Son of YHWH.

And as the Father said to the Son "God" does that shows that the Father has a God also? (Heb 1:8,9) Just applying your logic.

[JehovahsWitness]

HEBREWS 1: 7 DOES PAUL SAY ALMIGHTY GOD (YHWH) THE FATHER ADDRESSES HIS SON AS HIS GOD?


HEBREWS 1: 7, 8 says "Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But about the Son..." NWT, so no, so the words Paul quotes were not God speaking to or addressing his son but speaking ABOUT his son. Note various translations of the same passage below ...

New International Version
But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

English Standard Version
But of the Son he says

Berean Standard Bible
But about the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever, and justice is the scepter of Your kingdom.

New American Standard Bible
But regarding the Son He says ...

NASB 1995
But of the Son He says ...

NASB 1977
But of the Son He says ...

Legacy Standard Bible
But of the Son He says ...

American Standard Version
but of the Son he saith ...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But concerning The Son, he said ...

Contemporary English Version
But God says about his Son ...

English Revised Version
but of the Son he saith ...

GOD'S WORD® Translation
But God said about his Son, ...

Good News Translation
About the Son, however, God said: ...

International Standard Version
But about the Son he says, ...

Majority Standard Bible
But about the Son He says: ...

New American Bible
but of the Son: ...

NET Bible
but of the Son he says, ...

New Revised Standard Version
But of the Son he says, ...

New Heart English Bible
But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your Kingdom.

Weymouth New Testament
But of His Son, He says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and for ever, and the sceptre of Thy Kingdom is a sceptre of absolute justice.

World English Bible
But of the Son he says ...

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