GEHENNA, a place of fiery torture?

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

[onewithhim]

Yes, but I believe all fire that punished the ungodly is literal fire.

You may believe that but the bible makes no such statement. Fire in scripture can be either literal or figurative and there is no statement in scripture that ffire reserved for the wicked must be literal.


JW

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

[myth-one.com]

Yes, but I believe all fire that punished the ungodly is literal fire.

You may believe that but the bible makes no such statement. Fire in scripture can be either literal or figurative and there is no statement in scripture that ffire reserved for the wicked must be literal.


JW

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

[onewithhim]

Yes, but I believe all fire that punished the ungodly is literal fire.

You may believe that but the bible makes no such statement. Fire in scripture can be either literal or figurative and there is no statement in scripture that ffire reserved for the wicked must be literal.


JW

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

[Capbook]

Yes, but I believe all fire that punished the ungodly is literal fire.

You may believe that but the bible makes no such statement. Fire in scripture can be either literal or figurative and there is no statement in scripture that ffire reserved for the wicked must be literal.


JW

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

One definition of, "were cast" in lexicon is "put".
It would be death and hell were put into the lake of fire.

NT:906
ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):

KJV - arise, cast (out), dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. , Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

[onewithhim]

You may believe that but the bible makes no such statement. Fire in scripture can be either literal or figurative and there is no statement in scripture that ffire reserved for the wicked must be literal.


JW

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

One definition of, "were cast" in lexicon is "put".
It would be death and hell were put into the lake of fire.

NT:906
ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):

KJV - arise, cast (out), dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. , Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

How can you literally PUT death and hell into anything?

[Difflugia]

How can you literally PUT death and hell into anything?

I suspect your difficulty is the same as with Jesus being literally both God and the Son of God. Mystical and metaphorical aren't the same thing, particularly in theology. Arguing that some theology is wrong because you have difficulty imagining it in a physical sense is a pretty poor argument. Paul speaks of multiple kinds of life, death, spirit, bodies, and heavens in ways that don't seem metaphorical, but don't make physical sense. You're now just arguing that death and hell can't be put somewhere else because you can't imagine it.

If heaven is of some substance of which a body can be made (1 Cor. 15:48), then why do you have trouble believing that hell is of some substance as well? You have repeatedly asserted that hades just refers to the grave, but there's no biblical reason to insist on that. Luke 10:15 implies that heaven and hell are complementary places, so unless you think God lacks dominion over heaven to move it elsewhere, whence your conviction that God lacks such dominion over hell?

The Bible's weird and theology is made up to suit the reader. As such, your trouble with someone else's theology might just be insufficient imagination.

[myth-one.com]

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, death and the grave no longer exist in regards to humans.

The concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed as the results of casting all living humans into the lake of fire.

[Capbook]

I agree with Capbook.

Revelation 22:19
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

With Revelation 22:19 in mind, what word or words would you risk replacing the biblical "lake of fire" phrase with in the Holy Bible to make it a literally true statement?

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

One definition of, "were cast" in lexicon is "put".
It would be death and hell were put into the lake of fire.

NT:906
ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):

KJV - arise, cast (out), dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. , Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

How can you literally PUT death and hell into anything?

The concept of casting or putting death and grave into the lake of fire is to put an end to them.

Luke 17:29
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

NT:622
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

[onewithhim]

There are no words taken away from the Scriptures. There are just explanations to glean the meaning of the "lake of fire." Just as Jesus explained his stories and illustrations to his disciples, as at Matthew 13:3-51) Jesus directs us even now to understand the illustrations in the Scriptures, and the Lake of fire is symbolic for complete annihilation.

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

One definition of, "were cast" in lexicon is "put".
It would be death and hell were put into the lake of fire.

NT:906
ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):

KJV - arise, cast (out), dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. , Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

How can you literally PUT death and hell into anything?

The concept of casting or putting death and grave into the lake of fire is to put an end to them.

Luke 17:29
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

NT:622
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

You are correct.

[Capbook]

Definition of lake of fire: A lake of fire.

There is no symbolic lake of fire -- that is your creation.

Those cast into the real lake of fire quickly experience their second and everlasting death and yes it results in their annihilation. That will be the end of them forever.

Definition of annihilation: complete destruction or obliteration.

Putting "complete" in front of annihilation is redundant.

The above is from the scriptures and requires no additional "explanation."

Good, you have defined the Lake of fire as symbolic for destruction.

No I haven't.

That's what I have been saying. It couldn't be literal because you can't throw death and Hades into anything. The throwing of them into the lake of fire is not literal.

The casting of them into the lake of fire is literal. It will actually occur.

How can you cast death? How can you cast hell?

At the time of judgment, the only living humans will be nonbelievers. Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death.

When the last human whose name is not written in the Book of Life is cast into the lake and dies, there are no longer any humans to die or be buried. Therefore, the concepts of death and the grave have been destroyed by means of casting into the lake of fire.

You didn't answer my question. You are saying that the casting of death and hell is literal. I asked, "How can you actually throw death and hell?"

One definition of, "were cast" in lexicon is "put".
It would be death and hell were put into the lake of fire.

NT:906
ballo (bal'-lo); a primary verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense):

KJV - arise, cast (out), dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust.
(New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. , Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

How can you literally PUT death and hell into anything?

The concept of casting or putting death and grave into the lake of fire is to put an end to them.

Luke 17:29
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

NT:622
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

You are correct.

Yes, as there will be no more death, there will be no grave.