The Origin and Destiny of man

[Revelations won]

True religion should clearly answer the question of the origin and destiny of man.

1. Where did we come from?

2 Why are we here?

3. What is the eternal destiny of man?

May we hear your clear knowledge of the above questions.

[onewithhim]

Man was never created to die.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

That was said AFTER Adam rebelled!

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

You said:

“by onewithhim » Sat Sep 14, 2024 5:54 pm
myth-one.com wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2024 1:42 pm
onewithhim wrote: ↑
Thu Sep 12, 2024 11:19 am
Man was never created to die.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)
That was said AFTER Adam rebelled!”


My response to Onewithhim:

May I suggest that our temporary mortal life on this earth is a test to see if we will be obedient to God’s commandments during a time when we are not in his presence.

Mortality is but a small, but perfect part of God’s plan of eternal happiness. If this were not so then why would a perfect God have created and foreordained Christ before the foundations of this earth were even laid to be our savior and redeemer, who is “the Holy One of Israel to redeem all mankind by his atoning sacrifice and resurrection? Clearly this was his eternal plan for our salvation and exaltation. To show other wise is blasphemous to assume God made a mistake.

The “fall” was clearly a part and parcel of God’s plan, for without the “fall” there would very obviously be no need for the forordained savior Jesus Christ and his infinite and eternal atonement and subsequent Resurrection. If the “fall’ had not occurred then God’s foreordained plan would have been frustrated.

God clearly knows the past, present, and the future. He makes no mistake, His plans do not fail.

If he were an imperfect being subject to failure or had to go to your so called “plan B”, then we could not develop a perfect faith in such a being.

According to scripture God forgive Adam, so what right do you have that allows you to place yourself above God and damn and condemn Adam? What right do you have to deny Adam repentance? This appears to be just one more of your “man made” false doctrines.

The last time I checked Christ died for ALL mankind. The scripture lists no exceptions.

I do not think you can show from the scriptures anywhere where God even used the word “condemned” upon Father Adam. So what right do you have to add this word to the scriptures?

WE BELIEVE THAT WE WILL BE PUNISHED FOR OUR OWN SINS AND NOT FOR ADAM’S TRANSGRESSION.

Christ has overcome the “fall” by his atonement and his gift and power of the resurrection. Therefore there is not a faithful man or woman from the days of Adam to the present that is denied all that God has promised of salvation and exaltation.
If you disagree with that which I have posted here then produce scriptural evidence to support your opposing position.


The ”fall “ was and is an absolutely necessity to put in full operation the infinite and eternal atonement and resurrection.

[myth-one.com]

Man was never created to die.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

That was said AFTER Adam rebelled!

Adam and Eve were created to die. In fact, they were evicted from the Garden of Eden to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and gaining everlasting life.

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Genesis 3:22)

[onewithhim]

True religion should clearly answer the question of the origin and destiny of man.

1. Where did we come from?

2 Why are we here?

3. What is the eternal destiny of man?

May we hear your clear knowledge of the above questions.

The true religion says thus:
1. We came from God Almighty, Jehovah, who caused our creation.

2. We are here because God wanted to share His happiness with other intelligent beings.

3. The eternal destiny of man has been to live forever on this beautiful planet that was prepared for us. (Genesis 1:28; 2:15) If Adam hadn't rebelled, he would still be here. Man was never created to die. Man would live as long as he obeyed his Maker. (Genesis 2:16,17) This wasn't difficult to do, as humans had everything they could possibly need and had no difficulty in leaving the one tree alone. They deliberately disobeyed and ate from the one tree. That is why all their progeny die. It's in our genes that we inherited from Adam who became imperfect when he rebelled. God immediately formulated a plan to save mankind from death. He commissioned Jesus to come here and buy back our lives, which he did. (Romans 5:12,18,19) God's plan that we could live forever on the earth has not been thwarted. Jesus made it possible for us to do that. (Psalm 37:9,11,29)

.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

[John17_3]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

Hi myth.
So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?
You said the wages sin pays is "second death". Why did you add second?
Did millions of people not die from sin, who will be resurrected, and not taste the second death?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

Hi myth.
So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?

Yes.

You said the wages sin pays is "second death". Why did you add second?

Because that is what the scriptures called the wages of our sins. Our first death is appointed to all mankind, so that death is not the death which is the wages of sin.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The unbelieving will suffer the second and everlasting death as the wages of their sins.

Did millions of people not die from sin, who will be resurrected, and not taste the second death?

Yes, everyone who ever died will be resurrected. Deceased believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life, and resurrected nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and can avoid the second death by accepting Jesus as their Savior then.

[John17_3]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

Hi myth.
So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?

yes.

You said the wages sin pays is "second death". Why did you add second?

Because that is what the scriptures called the wages of our sins:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Did millions of people not die from sin, who will be resurrected, and not taste the second death?

Yes, everyone who ever died will be resurrected. Deceased believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life, and resurrected nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and can avoid the second death by accepting Jesus as their Savior then.

Do you believe the tree had power of some sort, to make the man immortal?

The scripture at Revelation 21:8 does not say the wages of sin is the second death.
The scripture at Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Not the second death.
Why did you see the need to add, myth?

Since persons who died - paid their wages - of sin, will be resurrected, and not taste the second death, do you see how this differs from what you added to Romans 6:23?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #32]

The Fall was definitely NOT a part of God's plan. He designed the earth to be lived on and man to live here forever. The only reason we die is because Adam rebelled. AFTER Adam rebelled, God put in motion a plan to have Christ give himself a ransom in exchange for human lives. Christ was not designated to die before the earth was made. It was "from the founding of the world," the world being the society of imperfect violent humans that came into being when Adam disobeyed. (See I John 2:15-17)

If God wanted man to live forever, then He would not have created us capable of dying.

In fact, the Word (God) became flesh as the man Jesus Christ for the purpose of dying:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But salvation is a gift of God. We are not saved by a human sacrifice.

But you've heard that before.

You know, the bit about Jesus was a man, all men are appointed their first death, and Jesus died His appointed first death on the cross. Jesus could not avoid His first death, so that is not what saves anyone.

The wages for our sins is the "second death" not our first appointed deaths.

Hi myth.
So did God created the tree of life so that man could live forever?

yes.

You said the wages sin pays is "second death". Why did you add second?

Because that is what the scriptures called the wages of our sins:

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Did millions of people not die from sin, who will be resurrected, and not taste the second death?

Yes, everyone who ever died will be resurrected. Deceased believers will be resurrected to everlasting spiritual life, and resurrected nonbelievers will be resurrected as humans and can avoid the second death by accepting Jesus as their Savior then.

Do you believe the tree had power of some sort, to make the man immortal?

The only way any man can become immortal is to be born of the Spirit as a spirit. That which is born of the Spirit is spirit, and spirits are immortal.

The scripture at Revelation 21:8 does not say the wages of sin is the second death.

Death: the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

The Bible states that every deceased human will be resurrected back to life from their first appointed death. That being the case, then our appointed first "death" is not truly death as it is not permanent. Thus, the Bible often describes one's first death as sleep, slumber, or rest. Rest In Peace is common on headstones.

The scripture at Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death. Not the second death.

The second death is the only true permanent death.

Since persons who died - paid their wages - of sin, will be resurrected, and not taste the second death, do you see how this differs from what you added to Romans 6:23?

One's appointed first "death" is not permanent as all of the dead will be resurrected to life again. It does not fit the definition of death, and it does not pay the wages of any sin.

The only true death is the second death from which there is no recovery or resurrection. Thus, the second death pays the wages for our sins.