The Bible's Biggest Problem(s)?

[POI]

In a continuation of this topic (viewtopic.php?t=39327&start=990), which only discusses one important topic, I present a follow-up....

For Debate:

1) Why didn't Jesus write the NT Himself? Why leave this task up to fallible humans to write what was floating around, only after decade(s) of oral traditions? Wouldn't Jesus know that earnest confusion would soon prevail, and that his true message(s) may get fouled up by human error and/or corruption?

2) Case/point: There exists countless denominations, with opposing belief systems, all in earnest in reading the exact same collection of books. If Jesus' intent is to convey truth, why not assure his message(s) are crystal clear and unified for all?

3) If Jesus also recognizes that many/most were/are illiterate, and/or the many who are literate merely read at a lower grade level, and that differing languages can also blur the message(s), why not write the Bible in a cohesive way in which even the most rudimentary person can understand, in all languages?

This is, in part, the problem of communication....

[Tcg]

And you seem to be a poster who has this consistent, overwhelming need to continue bringing these irrelevant-to-the-facts opinions.

Stop bringing opinions to a fact fight.

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[SiNcE_1985]

Either of those could easily be true. The first is not necessarily true.

Um, no..that's where you are wrong.

If one is true, the other one is necessarily false.

The fact that you would even give credence to the second, tells me all I need to know.

That you cannot prove an omnibenevolent creator by looking at reality. Reality has both good and bad.

Again, what is good/bad (on atheism) is subjective.

That's why, as I said, we should focus the fine-tuning.

And while you cannot rule out an omnibenevolent creator, neither can you rule out an omnimalevolent one, and such a creator is not God and should be opposed.

An omnimalevolent one is still within theism-land...which flushes atheism down the toilet.

Hopefully an opinion we share, insofar as we should extend the benefit of the doubt and not assume malevolence.

If this is not an appropriate starting point because you do not agree, then nothing else follows.

At this point in the conversation, we are speaking of a generic creator of the universe.

No need to talk about the personality/character of this creator, if we haven't established whether one exists yet.

You're giving God the benefit of the doubt, though, which indicates that you do agree, and assuming that he is honest and not trying to hurt us. Given what he's done as his actions appear in the Bible, it is no more ridiculous to give Man that same benefit of the doubt. Conversely if you're finding Man full culpable - meaning knew it would hurt people and did it anyway - for eating an apple and causing all the harm in the world, then it's extremely reasonable to ask, what if God is malevolent, what if he's a liar, what if he does cause all the harm intentionally because he's a sadist? Well then, he should be opposed.

Not quite there yet, in the convo.

That might be very little evidence, and not strong evidence, that the Bible is made-up, but the type of story people prefer, and that consequently succeeds, is not.

I didn't mention the Bible yet.

And you think the Bible being true counts as a fact?

Pretty much, yeah.

[POI]

That's why, as I said, we should focus the fine-tuning.

New thread alert! To avoid the rabbit hole viewtopic.php?t=41944

[Revelations won]

To the OP and all respondents,

At least there is at least one thing we can all agree on is the fact that the number of posts on this topic is exponentially less that the number of opposing christian religions.

The Bible make itself very clear that by 2 or 3 witnesses shall every word be established.



2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

So where can we find other witnesses to support the Bible according the law of witnesses? Do any such records exist?

[1213]

JWs disagree with you. Who is right, you or the JWs?

I think we agree on what is said in the Bible.

Further, what reason(s) are acceptable to receive IV blood products, and how would you know?

At the moment I have no acceptable reason.

The only way to become righteous is by having faith...

Bible doesn't say so.

You also agree that the 'righteous' can still sin.

Where have I said so?

as you will continue to sin, no matter how hard you try not to.

I don't think that is true, because:

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is right-eous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

People should be born anew from God end become righteous and sinless.

Since all will continue to sin, no matter how hard one tries not to, why does Jesus opt to only save the ones (based upon an attribute they cannot control)? ---Which would be based upon a belief? Makes no logical sense....

Yes, you strawman argument makes no sense. I recommend to remain in what is actually said in the Bible.

[POI]

I think we agree on what is said in the Bible.

You don't agree as you state there exist(s) exception(s) to the rule.

At the moment I have no acceptable reason.

What is some acceptable reason(s), and how do you know?

Bible doesn't say so.

Yes. It does. In Romans 3. It's not my problem you can find verse(s) to the contrary, in other areas of the Bible. It's your problem to try and rationalize or reconcile them.

People should be born anew from God end become righteous and sinless.

As long as you ignore some other parts of the Bible, such as Romans 7:14-24.

[1213]

Yes. It does. In Romans 3. It's not my problem you can find verse(s) to the contrary, in other areas of the Bible.

Apparently you don't show the exact scripture, because it does not exist.

People should be born anew from God end become righteous and sinless.

As long as you ignore some other parts of the Bible, such as Romans 7:14-24.

Romans 7:14-24 doesn't say people should not be born anew and become righteous and sinless.

[POI]

Apparently you don't show the exact scripture, because it does not exist.

We've been through this countless times now. Romans 3 has been dissected over and over.

Romans 7:14-24 doesn't say people should not be born anew and become righteous and sinless.

Romans 7:14-24 describes the internal struggle of a person who desires to do good but is constantly tempted by sin, essentially saying that even though they know the law is good, their sinful nature prevents them from fully following it, leaving them feeling trapped and desperate for deliverance; it highlights the conflict between the "flesh" (sinful desires) and the "mind" (wanting to do good).

In essence, being born anew ain't gonna stop you from sin, which is why you need Jesus-faith, as Jesus is the only sinless fella -- (Romans 3).

***********************************************

We still have another unresolved issue... You and the JWs do not agree. Who is right, you or them?

[Purple Knight]

And you think the Bible being true counts as a fact?

Pretty much, yeah.

Okay let's start there. God is real. I literally do not care whether he's real or not. Just like if James T. Kirk turned out to be real, it wouldn't influence my take on anything about Star Trek. He's either a good role model or he's not. The only minor difference is that if he happens to exist in my reality, and I thought he was a bad person and/or a risk to me personally, I'd take the extra measure of trying to avoid him.

I have absolutely no problem assuming that the Jewish God is real. Whether he is real or not makes absolutely no difference. He can send me to Hell. So what? A bully can push me into a fire. That doesn't make him righteous to do so.

So the question is then: Why do you worship God? Is it because he's powerful and can send you to Hell? Or is what he says and does righteous, in the way that it would still be righteous, if someone other than God did it?

[SiNcE_1985]

Okay let's start there. God is real. I literally do not care whether he's real or not. Just like if James T. Kirk turned out to be real, it wouldn't influence my take on anything about Star Trek. He's either a good role model or he's not. The only minor difference is that if he happens to exist in my reality, and I thought he was a bad person and/or a risk to me personally, I'd take the extra measure of trying to avoid him.

I have absolutely no problem assuming that the Jewish God is real. Whether he is real or not makes absolutely no difference. He can send me to Hell. So what? A bully can push me into a fire. That doesn't make him righteous to do so.

So the question is then: Why do you worship God? Is it because he's powerful and can send you to Hell? Or is what he says and does righteous, in the way that it would still be righteous, if someone other than God did it?

Hey, you are entitled to totally live your life as you see fit.

Why do I worship God? Because God gave me life, and I like living.

Also, because after experiencing what I consider to be evil in this world, I believe that the one essence of being of which is in existence, a being of whom can do no evil, is a being worthy of worship.

A being that is so magnificently great and righteous, that you can't even look at him and live..your sinful eyes doesn't deserve to behold something so righteous and holy.

That, I believe, is worthy of worship.

Sure, you can attempt to dissect what I said all you like..poke holes in it. I don't care.

Call my belief fiction, fantasy, make-believe, whatever.

But just know, we are not here by accident. Nothing just happens. Everything was planned.
....

That aside, you are basically saying you don't care about that religious stuff.

Really?

It blows my mind how you can care so less about this stuff, yet invest your time (on here) talking about stuff that you claim you don't care about.

I don't care about NASCAR, Soccer, or Star Wars.

How much don't I care? I don't care so much that you won't find me on any forums talking about that stuff.. why? Because I don't care.

I guess you and I have different definitions of what is meant to "not care".