Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

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Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #1

Post by Diogenes »

In the post "Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?" posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=1073778
I wrote:
When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both. ... and it has little to do with the reasons stated in post #1.
This suggests the current topic, 'Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'

In support of this proposition I quote from the Southern Nazarene University website,
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/ages.htm where they claim 85% of Christians have their conversion experience ("are saved") at ages 4 to 14 and only 4% after the age of 30.

Parenthetically I note the human brain does not fully develop until about age 25.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/
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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #231

Post by otseng »

[Replying to oaroloye in post #226]

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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #232

Post by Difflugia »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:06 amPlease tell, what is the greatest evidence for evolution?
That's been done. Your response was unsupported denial.

My assertion is that patterns of phylogenesis are sufficient to show that evolution is far and away the most likely explanation for the biological diversity present on Earth. If you want to try again, I created a thread a while back to discuss it. The debate question is just my assertion here, but reframed as a question.
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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #233

Post by benchwarmer »

1213 wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 12:06 am
benchwarmer wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:47 am ...
There is so much evidence for evolution now...
Please tell, what is the greatest evidence for evolution?
There is no single item. It's the fact there is a plethora of peer reviewed research on the subject all backed up by data. Data which you yourself are free to analyze, question, and learn about.

Maybe start here: https://academic.oup.com/evolut

Or any of the other scientific data which is simple enough to find via Google. If you don't trust online research, feel free to visit any university biology department and sign up for a course. Go into the lab and see for yourself.

At some point, you can either go look for yourself and satisfy your question (assuming it's actually in good faith), or continue to pretend the data is not there.

Again, how persuasive do you think your line of reasoning is here? I'm not trying to convince you evolution is fact. I'm merely pointing out to readers how and where they can go find out themselves. Do you think they will simply take your word for it or will they believe what they find if they bother doing any research?

The main difference between your approach and mine is that I'm happy for readers to go find the facts themselves after pointing out that data exists. Your approach is simply to give your opinion, claim it as fact, and hope everyone believes you. Good luck! I love it when my interlocutor has nothing but baseless opinion.

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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #234

Post by William »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:04 pm In the post "Christians: aren't you embarrassed and angry?" posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=1073778
I wrote:
When they finally "get it" and realize most of them are Christians mainly because of childhood indoctrination and step out of the bondage of fantasy they were taught at an early age, then they are embarrassed or angry or both. ... and it has little to do with the reasons stated in post #1.
This suggests the current topic, 'Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'

In support of this proposition I quote from the Southern Nazarene University website,
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/ages.htm where they claim 85% of Christians have their conversion experience ("are saved") at ages 4 to 14 and only 4% after the age of 30.

Parenthetically I note the human brain does not fully develop until about age 25.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3621648/
The statement "Most Christians are 'Christian' because they were indoctrinated as children" is an assertion that suggests many people who identify as Christians do so primarily because they were exposed to Christian teachings, beliefs, and practices during their formative years. This is a topic that can be discussed from multiple perspectives:

1. Sociological Perspective
Cultural Transmission:
It is common for children to adopt the religion of their parents or the dominant culture in which they are raised. This is not unique to Christianity and occurs across various religious and cultural traditions.
Socialization: Religion is often a part of the socialization process, where children learn values, norms, and beliefs through their families, communities, and institutions like churches or schools.

2. Theological Perspective
Faith and Choice:
From a theological standpoint, some Christians argue that faith is a personal choice, even if initial exposure occurred in childhood. They may see early religious education as a foundation rather than indoctrination.

Evangelism: Many Christian denominations emphasize teaching children about the faith, seeing it as part of their religious duty to nurture belief.

3. Psychological Perspective
Indoctrination vs. Education:
Some might view teaching children religious beliefs as indoctrination, especially if it involves compelling acceptance of specific doctrines without room for critical thinking. Others view it as education, akin to teaching any set of moral or cultural values.

Childhood Influence: Research shows that early life experiences often have a lasting impact on beliefs and behaviors. However, many people reassess and sometimes change their beliefs later in life.

4. Critiques of the Statement
Generalization:
Not all Christians were raised in Christian households. Many convert to Christianity as adults, suggesting that personal experience and conviction play a role for some.

Neglecting Agency: The statement may downplay the agency of individuals who consciously choose to remain Christians after examining their beliefs critically.

5. Broader Implications
Universality Across Beliefs:
The phenomenon described isn’t unique to Christianity. People of all faiths and ideologies, including secular or atheistic worldviews, are often influenced by their upbringing.

Debate on Indoctrination: The term "indoctrination" can carry a negative connotation, implying coercion or lack of choice, whereas religious communities might see it as guidance or teaching.
Whether the statement holds true depends on one's perspective, experiences, and how terms like "indoctrination" and "Christian" are defined. It’s an interesting point that invites reflection on how beliefs are formed and transmitted.

____________________________

Generally speaking we all enter the world as blank slates and so childhood influence has its natural role to play and growing up (intellectually) means determining what is useful and what is not regarding those influences.

1. The Role of Childhood Influence
The Blank Slate Metaphor:
While we may not be literal "blank slates" due to genetic predispositions and innate traits, we are profoundly shaped by the environments in which we are raised. Families, cultures, and communities instill initial frameworks for understanding the world.

Learning Through Experience: During childhood, we lack the tools for extensive critical analysis and largely accept what we are taught. This is a natural and necessary process for acquiring basic knowledge and navigating life safely and effectively.

Cultural and Moral Foundations: Early influences often include values, ethics, language, and traditions, which serve as a foundation for future intellectual exploration.

2. Intellectual Growth and Critical Evaluation
Gaining Tools for Critical Thinking:
As we grow intellectually, we develop the capacity to question and evaluate the beliefs and values we inherited. Education, exposure to diverse perspectives, and life experiences play crucial roles in this process.
Distinguishing the Useful from the Not:

Retaining What Works: Some childhood teachings, such as principles of kindness, honesty, or critical thinking skills, may prove universally beneficial and worth keeping.

Letting Go of What Doesn’t: Other influences, such as harmful biases, unfounded fears, or rigid dogmas, may be reconsidered or discarded when they no longer align with our personal understanding or goals.

3. The Balance Between Influence and Autonomy
Acknowledging the Role of Influence:
Recognizing that our upbringing shapes us doesn't diminish our agency but provides a context for understanding how we got to where we are.

Embracing Personal Responsibility: Growing up intellectually means taking ownership of our beliefs and choices, striving to align them with evidence, reason, and our evolving values.

4. Lifelong Growth
Continuous Re-evaluation:
The process of determining what is useful and what is not doesn’t stop in early adulthood. As we encounter new experiences and ideas, we have the opportunity to refine our understanding further.

Openness to Change: Intellectual maturity involves staying open to revisiting past conclusions and adapting to new insights.
This emphasizes the importance of childhood influences while also highlighting the transformative power of intellectual growth. It strikes a harmonious chord between acknowledging the past and embracing the responsibility for shaping one's future beliefs and values.

Image
Image

An immaterial nothing creating a material something is as logically sound as square circles and married bachelors.


Unjustified Fact Claim(UFC) example - belief (of any sort) based on personal subjective experience. (Belief-based belief)
Justified Fact Claim(JFC) Example, The Earth is spherical in shape. (Knowledge-based belief)
Irrefutable Fact Claim (IFC) Example Humans in general experience some level of self-awareness. (Knowledge-based knowledge)

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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #235

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Diogenes wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:04 pm This suggests the current topic, Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'
As I continue to point out..

This is the Genetic Fallacy, and it fallacious for good reasons.

You cant logically judge the truth-value of X, based on where X originated.

People believing in Christianity because they were taught the belief as children, says absolutely NOTHING about whether Christianity is a true belief system, in general.

This is like saying..

"The only reason you like Michael Jordan is because you grew up in Chicago".

While that statement could be true, it isn't necessarily true.

You guys need to stop with the fallacious arguments.

But, that is this new-age atheism for you...they are so focused on debunking Christianity that they can't sleep at night and don't realize just how irrational their objections actually are.
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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #236

Post by oldbadger »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 7:29 am
Diogenes wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:04 pm This suggests the current topic, Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children.'
This is the Genetic Fallacy, and it fallacious for good reasons.

People believing in Christianity because they were taught the belief as children, says absolutely NOTHING about whether Christianity is a true belief system, in general.
..................
That is a distorted opinion. The Thread Title isn't about the correctness of Christianity but how it got started in many folks today.

That people were indoctrinated in to anything as children does not and cannot make that belief true but it is indeed mostly true that Christians were indoctrinated when children......not only in their homes but in Schools and Sunday schools.

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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #237

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

oldbadger wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:50 pm That is a distorted opinion. The Thread Title isn't about the correctness of Christianity but how it got started in many folks today. That people were indoctrinated in to anything as children does not and cannot make that belief true but it is indeed mostly true that Christians were indoctrinated when children

.....not only in their homes but in Schools and Sunday schools.
I wasn't born last night.

Usually when the word "indoctrinated" is thrown around, it is insinuating a belief of falsehood and the connetation of the word is not too far from "brain washing" and "mind control".

I'm no fool and I know the underlining meaning behind the thread.
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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #238

Post by Diogenes »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 5:24 pm
oldbadger wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 3:50 pm That is a distorted opinion. The Thread Title isn't about the correctness of Christianity but how it got started in many folks today. That people were indoctrinated in to anything as children does not and cannot make that belief true but it is indeed mostly true that Christians were indoctrinated when children

.....not only in their homes but in Schools and Sunday schools.
I wasn't born last night.

Usually when the word "indoctrinated" is thrown around, it is insinuating a belief of falsehood and the connetation [sic] of the word is not too far from "brain washing" and "mind control".

I'm no fool and I know the underlining meaning behind the thread.

Interesting you feel the need to explain you "weren't born yesterday" and that you are "no fool."
One can be indoctrinated in justified beliefs just as in fantastic ones such as the resurrection of the dead and gods impregnating virgins. YOUR erroneous opinion on the meaning of a word does not support a general connotation of its meaning.

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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #239

Post by SiNcE_1985 »

Diogenes wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 8:19 pm Interesting you feel the need to explain you "weren't born yesterday" and that you are "no fool."
One can be indoctrinated in justified beliefs just as in fantastic ones such as the resurrection of the dead and gods impregnating virgins.

YOUR erroneous opinion on the meaning of a word does not support a general connotation of its meaning.[/size]
First off, that was my point; if a person is indoctrinated with justified beliefs, then this would be hardly worthy of discussion or debate.

Because justified beliefs are not contentious, are they?

Only if a person is indoctrinated with perceived "unjustified beliefs" (as most of you believe Christianity to be), then that is where the contention lies and where threads like this begin.

I know how the game goes.
............


Second, yeah, fantastic beliefs like the resurrection of the dead.

Or, fantastic beliefs such as the idea that dead matter came to life and begin to have sex with other dead matter which also independently came to life (abiogenesis), which is the default position to hold after the existence of God is negated.

So, I'll put up my fantastic resurrection belief for the fantastic atheistic abiogenesis belief...I'll call it even.
..........

As far as God impregnating a virgin, well again, I'll put that fantastic belief up against the belief that dead matter came to life and begin having sex, all without having a proper class on sexual education first.

I guess Mother nature gave males penises and females vaginas and said "I've done my part. They'll figure it out".

So again, we are even.

One fantastic belief for another.
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Re: Most Christians are "Christian" Because they were Indoctrinated as Children

Post #240

Post by oldbadger »

SiNcE_1985 wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 5:24 pm I wasn't born last night.
......but you did fail to grasp the exact meaning of this thread, that most Christians were indoctrinated as infants.

The word 'indoctrinate' does not have just your meaning. See below including a short thesaurus which does include your translation but not only that translation..... here you are:
indoctrinate
/ɪnˈdɒktrɪneɪt/
verb
teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.
'broadcasting was a vehicle for indoctrinating the masses'
synonyms: brainwash, propagandize, proselytize, inculcate, re-educate, persuade, convince, condition, discipline, mould, instruct, teach, school, drill, ground
Usually when the word "indoctrinated" is thrown around, it is insinuating a belief of falsehood and the connetation of the word is not too far from "brain washing" and "mind control".
Well I wouldn't need that word to show how Christianity is indeed a mish mash of various religions and cultures which Christianity reversed itself into.
Even as one reads the surviving gospels (Mark first is best) the person of Jesus changes from a man on a mission against corruption and greed of the Priesthood in to a lord and finally a God
I'm no fool and I know the underlining meaning behind the thread.
If you have indeed come to some conclusion that the thread claims Christianity to be false, then maybe you can answer that effectively?
But trust me when I tell you that indoctrination can mean teaching.

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