"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 "But if the servant declares, I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free, 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #411

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:11 pm
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:12 pm Why did God not tell people not to allow tyrannical governments to rule over them? Why did God not tell sinners not to give money to greedy scammers who are just taking them for their money like saps? Why did God not tell soldiers not to take prisoners of enemy nations as spoils of war, or to imprison those enemies or make slaves out of them? I don't know why God left many things unsaid, but I do believe sinners have all they need from God to do ritht and to fight for truth, justice, and right.
If the Bible remained silent about a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding, you would have a valid point. You could then assume God is not okay with slavery. But instead, the Bible weighed in upon these two topics and endorses/condones them.

6th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
Slavery has been a human practice for thousands of years. God did not tell followers to find some other way to deal with extreme poverty besides allowing people to sell themselves or be sold into slavery to survive. God did not instruct His people to kill prisoners of war and enemy combatants rather than make slaves out of them. I do not presume that God must have been evil for instructing His people about the humane treatment of slaves.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #412

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:58 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:11 pm
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:12 pm Why did God not tell people not to allow tyrannical governments to rule over them? Why did God not tell sinners not to give money to greedy scammers who are just taking them for their money like saps? Why did God not tell soldiers not to take prisoners of enemy nations as spoils of war, or to imprison those enemies or make slaves out of them? I don't know why God left many things unsaid, but I do believe sinners have all they need from God to do ritht and to fight for truth, justice, and right.
If the Bible remained silent about a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding, you would have a valid point. You could then assume God is not okay with slavery. But instead, the Bible weighed in upon these two topics and endorses/condones them.

6th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
Slavery has been a human practice for thousands of years. God did not tell followers to find some other way to deal with extreme poverty besides allowing people to sell themselves or be sold into slavery to survive. God did not instruct His people to kill prisoners of war and enemy combatants rather than make slaves out of them. I do not presume that God must have been evil for instructing His people about the humane treatment of slaves.
I'm sorry, but this is a bad excuse. God does not like a lot of things. And yet, the Bible cares not to abolish it. The Bible tells folks not to mix fabrics, not eat shell fish, etc etc etc. And yet, the Bible cares not to mention that he does not like humans enslaving other humans? And since the Bible goes out of it's way to provide special instruction(s) on how to enslave others 'correctly', this means the Bible is not really against it.

7th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #413

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 1:29 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:14 pm ...Not all rules are created equal.
But, Bible doesn't say the "love your neighbor" is just about the people you like the most.
Do you agree or disagree to the Bible's given hierarchy?

God > Jesus > man > woman > Hebrew male slave > female/foreign/bred slave > livestock > inanimate object.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #414

Post by marke »

POI wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 5:08 am
marke wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 2:58 am
POI wrote: Wed Jan 15, 2025 1:11 pm
marke wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2025 11:12 pm Why did God not tell people not to allow tyrannical governments to rule over them? Why did God not tell sinners not to give money to greedy scammers who are just taking them for their money like saps? Why did God not tell soldiers not to take prisoners of enemy nations as spoils of war, or to imprison those enemies or make slaves out of them? I don't know why God left many things unsaid, but I do believe sinners have all they need from God to do ritht and to fight for truth, justice, and right.
If the Bible remained silent about a) lifetime chattel slavery and b) slave breeding, you would have a valid point. You could then assume God is not okay with slavery. But instead, the Bible weighed in upon these two topics and endorses/condones them.

6th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
Slavery has been a human practice for thousands of years. God did not tell followers to find some other way to deal with extreme poverty besides allowing people to sell themselves or be sold into slavery to survive. God did not instruct His people to kill prisoners of war and enemy combatants rather than make slaves out of them. I do not presume that God must have been evil for instructing His people about the humane treatment of slaves.
I'm sorry, but this is a bad excuse. God does not like a lot of things. And yet, the Bible cares not to abolish it. The Bible tells folks not to mix fabrics, not eat shell fish, etc etc etc. And yet, the Bible cares not to mention that he does not like humans enslaving other humans? And since the Bible goes out of it's way to provide special instruction(s) on how to enslave others 'correctly', this means the Bible is not really against it.

7th request... Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral compass?
I find no fault with God for His instructions in the Bible relating to slavery.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #415

Post by benchwarmer »

marke wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:13 am I find no fault with God for His instructions in the Bible relating to slavery.
So you think it's fine to beat other humans with a rod as long as you don't kill them? Well, at least you're honest and we can tell where you stand morally.

I think it's interesting that atheists seem to have a higher moral standard than some Christians. If I was making the rules, it would be pretty simple to add "Don't enslave your fellow humans".

If you want to pay someone to work for you and feed them, that's not slavery. The Bible condones slavery. End of story. Apologists don't like that and have to tap dance around it and make all manner of excuses. Trust me, it's a bad look.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #416

Post by POI »

marke wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:13 am I find no fault with God for His instructions in the Bible relating to slavery.
Then I guess this means that you are a-okay with lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. :approve: Good to know.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #417

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to benchwarmer in post #408]


You just twist things because of a lack of understanding.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #418

Post by servant1 »

[Replying to POI in post #409]


Sometimes they fell away, but when God was fighting their wars or with them at war, they were righteous. And that is where the helping of the women and children left without husbands occurred. Otherwise other wicked groups would have come and really enslaved them or killed them in a harsh way.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #419

Post by marke »

benchwarmer wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 11:02 am
marke wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:13 am I find no fault with God for His instructions in the Bible relating to slavery.
So you think it's fine to beat other humans with a rod as long as you don't kill them? Well, at least you're honest and we can tell where you stand morally.

I think it's interesting that atheists seem to have a higher moral standard than some Christians. If I was making the rules, it would be pretty simple to add "Don't enslave your fellow humans".

If you want to pay someone to work for you and feed them, that's not slavery. The Bible condones slavery. End of story. Apologists don't like that and have to tap dance around it and make all manner of excuses. Trust me, it's a bad look.
I make no assumptions about how God felt about how believers should approach every different form of slavery in the OT.

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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #420

Post by POI »

servant1 wrote: Thu Jan 16, 2025 1:48 pm [Replying to POI in post #409]


Sometimes they fell away, but when God was fighting their wars or with them at war, they were righteous. And that is where the helping of the women and children left without husbands occurred. Otherwise other wicked groups would have come and really enslaved them or killed them in a harsh way.
Hmm? So, when Deuteronomy speaks about these Israelites enjoying their plunder, which included these captured women and children, plunder actually means something completely different to the Israelites?

6th request: Why follow a book which does not align with your own moral standards?
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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